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02-12-2012, 11:25 AM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Pentax Japan has heard of our website, though they say that the multitude of Japanese Pentax sites out there have a much bigger reach within Japan, hence we don't see many Japanese users here.
I have been curious about this from before, but where can one find one of those Japanese Pentax sites? My Japanese isn't good, but maybe with the help of google translate one can get what the discussions between pentax users in Japan revolves around. I'm curious to see if it's about FF and SDM problems there as well? Or what do they think about the Q and K-01?

02-12-2012, 11:32 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
That's an interesting take - majority of folks selling their D700 are doing it to move back to aps-c?

I think people who are selling want to get the best price possible, so they're doing it early while putting in a pre-order for the D800 (or D4.) Same thing will be happening on the Canon side.

It may be very hard to take delivery of a D800 in the first three months, maybe longer.

I'm sure there are some folks selling the D700 if they think it's more camera than they need, or because of financial reasons, but the majority of sellers are pre-ordering or planning to. (& I think mirrorless is serving as a 'second camera' for most of these folks, not a FF DSLR replacement.)
+1 We haven't seen the spike from these new camera models but we will. It will of course be a very small percentage of overall camera sales. Since Pentax holds a small slice of overall sales, a small slice of that slice means few overall unit sold, which means a financial loss. Pentax already has professional market presence through the 645d....so unless they can find a way to make FF dirt cheap, or different than what is out there now (i.e. mirrorless), there is no reason for them to release a FF model.
02-12-2012, 11:37 AM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by Boucicaut Quote
. The FF crowd is just a very vocal one.
Yet the other side is even more vocal, IMO.

QuoteOriginally posted by SteveM Quote
Pentax already has professional market presence through the 645d....so unless they can find a way to make FF dirt cheap, or different than what is out there now (i.e. mirrorless), there is no reason for them to release a FF model
They could make the 645D appeal to more professionals and also enthusiasts with a D800 price. If they don't make a FF DSLR, I'd rather they made a 645D mirror-less and made it dirt cheap. That makes more sense than making a FF mirror-less because the other guys will probably soon have FF mirror-less themselves.

Last edited by pz1fan; 02-12-2012 at 11:42 AM.
02-12-2012, 12:07 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by pz1fan Quote
They could make the 645D appeal to more professionals and also enthusiasts with a D800 price. If they don't make a FF DSLR, I'd rather they made a 645D mirror-less and made it dirt cheap. That makes more sense than making a FF mirror-less because the other guys will probably soon have FF mirror-less themselves.
I'm in complete agreement with you on this. I don't think a mirrorless FF body would really be a good idea. I'd rather spend some extra money and get one with an OVF if I wanted to go that route.

However, as much as I would love a FF body, whether its Pentax, Nikon or Canon, I don't think I'd be alone in needing to buy a bunch of new lenses. And if I'm going to spend $3000+ on a body plus the cost of weather sealed lenses, I have to admit I'd just as soon look at a mirrorless MF if it was about the same cost. It would be an ideal jumping in point that might lead to a $10,000 MF body purchase down the road, or at the very least a couple of extra lenses. There's a lot of merrit to this idea.

Like I said, I don't think I'd be alone in having to pony up for FF compatable lenses, so if I'm looking at re-stocking my stable, I'd have to look at MF if there was a cost-competitive body.

02-12-2012, 12:12 PM   #170
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Well, let me question the possibility to get any MF body at less than 3000 USD unit price : as you know, sensor price are rather exponential and not linear according to their surface, therefore i think you are a bit optimistic in this quotation.
02-12-2012, 12:15 PM   #171
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The problem with a "cheap 645d" is that the sensor is not cheap. I'm sure it has gone down now, but Pentax used to pay $4,000 for the sensor they put in it. I doubt it has gone done all that much.
02-12-2012, 12:17 PM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by arnie0674 Quote
Why is full frame so important? I'm a bit clueless here about this. What advantage does full frame offer you?
Don't you get it? FF has shallower DOF than APS-C nothing is as important as that in photography! Geesh.........................
02-12-2012, 12:18 PM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by SteveM Quote
The problem with a "cheap 645d" is that the sensor is not cheap. I'm sure it has gone down now, but Pentax used to pay $4,000 for the sensor they put in it. I doubt it has gone done all that much.
And Kodak sold the unit to an industrial venture equity company.

02-12-2012, 12:20 PM   #174
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Yes, this would mean not much chance to see sensor price lowering...
02-12-2012, 12:22 PM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Well, let me question the possibility to get any MF body at less than 3000 USD unit price : as you know, sensor price are rather exponential and not linear according to their surface, therefore i think you are a bit optimistic in this quotation.
Could be. But I also think that getting rid of the pentaprism and mirror assembly would save a lot of money - especially the pentaprism. Maybe not 7k worth, but the savings wouldn't be insignificant.
02-12-2012, 12:40 PM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
That's an interesting take - majority of folks selling their D700 are doing it to move back to aps-c?
Same logic as people selling APS-C or DSLR to move to mirrorless m43!
02-12-2012, 12:44 PM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by Boucicaut Quote
You are not the only one. The FF crowd is just a very vocal one. I know I don't want one, at least not at the price tag it will surely carry.
And that's the issue.

Until FF sensor prices fall substantially (50%) or Pentax becomes the hottest, sexiest new brand in all things photographic, then FF isn't coming to this brand any time soon.

FF prices are too high to grow the market, and so high that they could not sell enough volume to make money even from the current Pentax installed ("vocal") base.

Last edited by Aristophanes; 02-12-2012 at 04:48 PM.
02-12-2012, 12:48 PM   #178
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If Pentax released wide angle lenses down to say 6 or 8mm it could appease many who want FF.. but they would have to be of really good quality.. But FF is more than just wider viewing angles from all of our FF glass.. FF would mean even better low light shooting, less detail lost in PP when cleaning up shots (in general), FF would be 24MP or more and allow for more cropping space and/or much more detail in your image. The K-5 has great IQ, even if it's AA filter is fairly strong.. it's better than having moire issues. Even so, I would consider another K-5 and getting the AA filter removed for landscape photography.
02-12-2012, 12:53 PM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
And that's the issue.

Until FF sensor prices fall substantially (50%) or Pentax becomes the hottest, sexiest new brand in all things photographic, then FF isn't coming o this brand any time soon.

FF prices are too high to grow the market, and so high that they could not sell enough volume to make money even from the current Pentax installed ("vocal") base.
The Prices are only high, because Nikon and Canon only REALLY have to compete with each other... If Pentax dropped a bomb in the middle of it all.. a FF or APS-H sensored camera.. say with all the guts of the K-01 or even K-5.. even if the body had to be another centimeter wider + taller to accommodate.. it could probably hit the market at about $1600-$1800 tops.. Pentax's only problem doing this would be keeping up with demand.
02-12-2012, 01:07 PM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chex Quote
The Prices are only high, because Nikon and Canon only REALLY have to compete with each other... If Pentax dropped a bomb in the middle of it all.. a FF or APS-H sensored camera.. say with all the guts of the K-01 or even K-5.. even if the body had to be another centimeter wider + taller to accommodate.. it could probably hit the market at about $1600-$1800 tops.. Pentax's only problem doing this would be keeping up with demand.
If Pentax developed it's own FF sensor....which is unlikely. It would be nice though.
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