[eurostar]

Guys, would you explain something to me...? I can see huge really monstrous craving for the pentax full frame on this forum - there is lot of fuss about it around our community and they release colour-ish brick with small hole, saying that they need to address the hole in the market? What kind of ethical or pragmatical imperative is "filling the gap in the market hole" if they have thousands of people craving for full frame.... what kind of logic hides behind?

Because they need to sell hundreds of thousands of cameras. Not just thousands.

[Fontan]

Not judging you, obviously you should use the best camera for your needs. But I honestly would like to know.

You say that you plan to switch because there is no EVF for the K-01, and no full frame. 2 questions come to mind:

1. If an EVF would suffice, why wouldn't the K-5 fill the same need for you?
2. Why is full frame so important? I'm a bit clueless here about this. What advantage does full frame offer you?

Please dont take this the wrong way. I just want to understand these issues better.

From what I have read, FF really is the savior of all. It is all about DoF is what I can deduce. DoF will change everything about your photography. This is all you will ever need. Things such as IQ and artistic integrity will instantly become obsolete, much in the way VHS frmat when DVD hit the market. This is comparable to how Jesus performed miracles to those with incurable diseases like leprosy and blindness. The moment that little sensor becomes 40% or so larger, you will see that anything you shoot at turn into gold. It will effectively put an end to second and third rate photography. Photography competitions will immediately become a moot point.

[arnie0674]

From what I have read, FF really is the savior of all. It is all about DoF is what I can deduce. DoF will change everything about your photography. This is all you will ever need. Things such as IQ and artistic integrity will instantly become obsolete, much in the way VHS frmat when DVD hit the market. This is comparable to how Jesus performed miracles to those with incurable diseases like leprosy and blindness. The moment that little sensor becomes 40% or so larger, you will see that anything you shoot at turn into gold. It will effectively put an end to second and third rate photography. Photography competitions will immediately become a moot point.

I am now selling all my Pentax stuff and moving to FF!

[ogl]

Pentax FF will be mirrorless. C/N make classical FF DSLR, Sony - FF SLT. Leica is marginal and makes digital rangefinder. Pentax will make the first in the world FF mirrorless camera.

I think Pentax FF could be in two ways:
1. a) Something like K-01 (without EVF/ OVF) in designer's body (maybe digital LX). b) With the best EVF - Pentax just wait high-res. fast EVF.
2. GXRII + FF module with K-mount (AF or MF)

I don't see something another

---

Last edited by ogl; 02-12-2012 at 08:52 AM.

[ogl]

From BCN......a year old, I can't find this years list, but I don't suspect it has changed that much.

Percentage DSLR APS-C: 71.5%
Percentage DSLR FF: 1.8%
Percentage Mirrorless: 19.1%
Unknown: 7.6%

If you check the latest data for the US, which goes to the 80th most popular DSLR.....Pentax doesn't register. Not one camera.

If you check Japan stats....3 of the 80 most popular dslrs are combinations of the "Q". The only other Pentax listed is the K-5 in spot #42.

Considering the Pentax Q is not the most popular DSLR on this forum, but it is (presumably) for Pentax sales, how representative is this forum for Pentax?

Mirrorless Big In Japan: CIPA publishes DSLR vs Mirrorless shipment data by region - 1001 Noisy Cameras

[SteveM]

From what I have read, FF really is the savior of all. It is all about DoF is what I can deduce. DoF will change everything about your photography. This is all you will ever need. Things such as IQ and artistic integrity will instantly become obsolete, much in the way VHS frmat when DVD hit the market. This is comparable to how Jesus performed miracles to those with incurable diseases like leprosy and blindness. The moment that little sensor becomes 40% or so larger, you will see that anything you shoot at turn into gold. It will effectively put an end to second and third rate photography. Photography competitions will immediately become a moot point.

I'm afraid it's not quite that easy. I've read some articles here that FF needs to get rid of the OVF for this to happen. Once that happens, you can push a button while it dangles from your neck, it will use algorithms to find a target, adjust the sight for interesting composition and fire with the most optimum settings.

This is crap. Why should I have to push a button? Why won't they have it constantly scanning as I walk, using another algorithm to find things and fire automatically........ so I take brilliant photos? I want to be able to take perfect photos but don't want to be disturbed while I walk around eating a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken.

[SteveM]

Thanks ogl....do you have the latest FF to APS-C stats?

[ak_kiwi]

From what I have read, FF really is the savior of all. It is all about DoF is what I can deduce. DoF will change everything about your photography. This is all you will ever need. Things such as IQ and artistic integrity will instantly become obsolete, much in the way VHS frmat when DVD hit the market. This is comparable to how Jesus performed miracles to those with incurable diseases like leprosy and blindness. The moment that little sensor becomes 40% or so larger, you will see that anything you shoot at turn into gold. It will effectively put an end to second and third rate photography. Photography competitions will immediately become a moot point.

That gets a +1 for keeping it real.

[Fontan]

I'm afraid it's not quite that easy. I've read some articles here that FF needs to get rid of the OVF for this to happen. Once that happens, you can push a button while it dangles from your neck, it will use algorithms to find a target, adjust the sight for interesting composition and fire with the most optimum settings.

This is crap. Why should I have to push a button? Why won't they have it constantly scanning as I walk, using another algorithm to find things and fire automatically........ so I take brilliant photos? I want to be able to take perfect photos but don't want to be disturbed while I walk around eating a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken.

But it is it is! Many people (not me) swear by it. Their entire photographic endeavor solely depends on it. Only mortals use sensors smaller than FF.

[ogl]

Thanks ogl....do you have the latest FF to APS-C stats?

No. I've heard that FF is ~ 7% of market in Japan.

[Docrwm]

From BCN......a year old, I can't find this years list, but I don't suspect it has changed that much.

Percentage DSLR APS-C: 71.5%
Percentage DSLR FF: 1.8%
Percentage Mirrorless: 19.1%
Unknown: 7.6%

If you check the latest data for the US, which goes to the 80th most popular DSLR.....Pentax doesn't register. Not one camera.

If you check Japan stats....3 of the 80 most popular dslrs are combinations of the "Q". The only other Pentax listed is the K-5 in spot #42.

Considering the Pentax Q is not the most popular DSLR on this forum, but it is (presumably) for Pentax sales, how representative is this forum for Pentax?

Excellent question. Pentax has already said that they are aware of the Japan forums, and there are several, and other groups in Japan but only vaguely aware of this forum because its not primarily Japanese. Their sales figures are radically different in Japan & Asia to a large extent than they are for the rest of the world. We all know that Pentax USA is absolutely clueless and that Pentax UK and France are fairly dynamic. So, with Asia's growth outstripping the stagnant markets in NA and Europe, a better name recognition in Asia, and home turf knowledge and access - what factors do folks think might be most important (and which least) in making design, manufacturing, and marketing decisions for Pentax-Ricoh? Another question - what role do FF camera's play in the marketing of the brand more broadly? Seriously, at <2% of sales (is that units or $'s? because that matters - it takes a LOT of P&S's to = the sale in $s of 1 FF camera) are they a huge profit center, are they a loss leader in order to increase market share by attracting trend setters and icons, what genuine business purpose do they serve (other than stopping the whining of enthusiasts)?

[monochrome]

From BCN......a year old, I can't find this years list, but I don't suspect it has changed that much.

Percentage DSLR APS-C: 71.5%
Percentage DSLR FF: 1.8%
Percentage Mirrorless: 19.1%
Unknown: 7.6%

If you check the latest data for the US, which goes to the 80th most popular DSLR.....Pentax doesn't register. Not one camera.

If you check Japan stats....3 of the 80 most popular dslrs are combinations of the "Q". The only other Pentax listed is the K-5 in spot #42.

Considering the Pentax Q is not the most popular DSLR on this forum, but it is (presumably) for Pentax sales, how representative is this forum for Pentax?

Pentax FF will be mirrorless. C/N make classical FF DSLR, Sony - FF SLT. Leica is marginal and makes digital rangefinder. Pentax will make the first in the world FF mirrorless camera.

I think Pentax FF could be in two ways:
1. a) Something like K-01 (without EVF/ OVF) in designer's body (maybe digital LX). b) With the best EVF - Pentax just wait high-res. fast EVF.
2. GXRII + FF module with K-mount (AF or MF)

I don't see something another

Mirrorless Big In Japan: CIPA publishes DSLR vs Mirrorless shipment data by region - 1001 Noisy Cameras

Anyone reading these three posts should have all questions about Pentax plans answered.

[the swede]

FF is coming more and more in the enthusiast/hobbyist segment, and the funny part is that it wont show up in those sales stats. Because its about the used market.

I see it everywhere... people are buying used 5D's and D700's like crazy. That used market is very big now, and you dont have to buy anything new. It's all there, bodys and lenses.

Sure... those people are not a big number in the whole, but...

Its a sleeper "problem" for sure. No surprise in Sony's announcement imho...
The Sony camps FF voices are not bigger than ours. They're just screaming louder than us

[bobell69]

Excellent question. Pentax has already said that they are aware of the Japan forums, and there are several, and other groups in Japan but only vaguely aware of this forum because its not primarily Japanese. Their sales figures are radically different in Japan & Asia to a large extent than they are for the rest of the world. We all know that Pentax USA is absolutely clueless and that Pentax UK and France are fairly dynamic. So, with Asia's growth outstripping the stagnant markets in NA and Europe, a better name recognition in Asia, and home turf knowledge and access - what factors do folks think might be most important (and which least) in making design, manufacturing, and marketing decisions for Pentax-Ricoh? Another question - what role do FF camera's play in the marketing of the brand more broadly? Seriously, at <2% of sales (is that units or $'s? because that matters - it takes a LOT of P&S's to = the sale in $s of 1 FF camera) are they a huge profit center, are they a loss leader in order to increase market share by attracting trend setters and icons, what genuine business purpose do they serve (other than stopping the whining of enthusiasts)?

For those of us in North America we often feel that the sun rises and sets on our patch rather than anywhere else. It is obvious from all economic indicators that the far east is where the action is going to be in terms of economic growth in the forseeable future. There are potentially hundreds of millions of people who have never owned a camera before who will be making a purchasing decision over the next decade. Pentax knows this and thus is pushing innovative products such as the Q as well as the K01.

I note on the Dpreview Pentax forum that the main conversation is the Q rather than any of Optio line of cameras. It indicates to me that the Q is having more success than we maybe imagining.

[illdefined]

Yup, this was already announced on some roadmap somewhere

SOMEwhere??