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03-16-2012, 01:29 AM   #436
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well there is also Nikon 200-400mm/f4 lens, just a little more expensive.

I own the new Sigma 70-200mm/f2.8 EX DG OS HSM and I'm in for the larger Sigma 120-300mm. On the other hand I do sometimes think about a Nikon system, but I don't think I would buy the Sigma for a D3s or D4. It seems underwhelmed on those camera's.

Who would buy 120-300mm/f2.8 (I guess with matchting 1,4x TC)? People who do sports and soem nature. So there is a limited market for it. The lens was initial listed as coming in Pentax mount. Maybe Sigma will when the sales of that lens in Canon/Nikon mount will go down, since I have the idea that they can sell all production at the time.
I would like something in that 120-300 f2.8 range for shooting my kids indoor sports and events on my soon to be D700 or D800.. depends if I can afford to sell one of my kidneys or not..
The 200-400 will simply be a pipe dream.. that is a pricey chunk of glass.

03-16-2012, 01:45 AM   #437
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chex Quote
The 200-400 will simply be a pipe dream.. that is a pricey chunk of glass.
Absolutely true, but once you pop-up money for a D4 you want lenses on it that perform accordingly. But out of my reach at the time. I would like a cheap APS_H sized camera in a K-5 like body.

Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 03-16-2012 at 02:57 AM.
03-16-2012, 02:08 AM   #438
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chex Quote
I would like something in that 120-300 f2.8 range for shooting my kids indoor sports and events on my soon to be D700 or D800.. depends if I can afford to sell one of my kidneys or not..
The 200-400 will simply be a pipe dream.. that is a pricey chunk of glass.
I'm starting to think that a D700 might be all I need. The D800 is so demanding of lenses that I reckon I'd get trapped in a lens buying nightmare just trying to find some that did the sensor justice.
03-16-2012, 02:59 AM   #439
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
The D800 is so demanding of lenses that I reckon I'd get trapped in a lens buying nightmare just trying to find some that did the sensor justice.
I do wonder how long it will take before all those new hobby owners of D800 start to complain about underperforming of their system due to the lenses they currently own and are nice on D700.

03-16-2012, 03:44 AM   #440
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I'm starting to think that a D700 might be all I need.
It probably is. But then will be the K-5. There is no noticeable advantage in IQ for the D700 over the K-5 (the K-5 has less shadow noise at low iso, the D700 at high iso -- so overall, it is a tie). Except that lenses on the D700 perform a bit sharper due to the lower magnification -- but then the K-5 has more MP, a tie again.
03-16-2012, 04:02 AM   #441
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
There is no noticeable advantage in IQ for the D700 over the K-5
one should try and compare colours at iso above 3200. Recently i have done one wedding with d700 and k5 on pair - in a church so dark i could use iso 3200-4000 only i ended with black and white pictures from k5 where d700 still showed some nice tonals.... its not just about visible noise.....
03-16-2012, 04:16 AM   #442
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QuoteOriginally posted by filorp Quote
one should try and compare colours at iso above 3200. Recently i have done one wedding with d700 and k5 on pair - in a church so dark i could use iso 3200-4000 only i ended with black and white pictures from k5 where d700 still showed some nice tonals.... its not just about visible noise.....
That's all?! Then why is everybody demanding a Pentax FF then? Seems rather unimportant if there is THAT little gain in IQ.
03-16-2012, 05:08 AM   #443
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QuoteOriginally posted by 24X36NOW Quote
Sorry to throw cold water on all of the wet dreams here, but Sigma is not introducing any of the lenses listed above in PK mount (i.e., the 12-24, 120-300, 150 Macro or 180 Macro) according to their own website. "Placeholder" listings at B&H do not mean anything. Sigma's website shows none of those lenses being offered in PK mount. Even the previous non-OS 120-300 f 2.8 was never made in PK mount - what would possibly possess Sigma to make an even more expensive version of the same lens in the mount that has less market share now then it did when the previous version was introduced?? Honestly, who would buy one at this point (at $3,200 B&H price, which is nothing more than the price set for the mounts Sigma will actually make) - the same cheapskates that insist they wouldn't pay $3,000 for a FF Pentax body?!

If K-mount is ever going to see lenses like the 120-300 f 2.8 made by third party lens makers again, Pentax will have to introduce a FF dSLR first, because such high-end lenses aren't going to be made for an also-ran "APS-C only" camera maker with dwindling market share - and Pentax market share will only go down if they continue their "bottom feeding" APS-C only stupidity.

120-300mm F2.8 EX DG OS APO HSM
Sigma's Press release for these lenses specified PK last year pre release.

03-16-2012, 05:21 AM   #444
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Nope, it's a totally different mount. Moreover, even a totally different style of photography. Those two do not eat off eachothers markets.
Pushing this point further, I would suggest that having both FF and MF shooters in the Pentax brand would make it easier to justify a pro support network.
03-16-2012, 05:25 AM   #445
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Absolutely true, but once you pop-up money for a D4 you want lenses on it that perform accordingly. But out of my reach at the time. I would like a cheap APS_H sized camera in a K-5 like body.
I'd prefer an FF sensor in a K20D sized body
03-16-2012, 06:13 AM   #446
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QuoteOriginally posted by filorp Quote
one should try and compare colours at iso above 3200. Recently i have done one wedding with d700 and k5 on pair - in a church so dark i could use iso 3200-4000 only i ended with black and white pictures from k5 where d700 still showed some nice tonals.... its not just about visible noise.....
To suggest that one can only print BW above iso 3200 to 4000 is going to come as a shock to many K5 owners. I shoot thousands of color pictures above that level all the time for a live theatre group, not by choice but by necessity. Of course a Dracula play may have some differences with a wedding , but the talented actress in this scene was delighted to get this 20,000 iso K5 picture in a 12x18" size. I'm not saying that the D700 is not a fine camera, but the K5 can do some amazing things as well, different horses for different courses.



Last edited by philbaum; 03-16-2012 at 06:30 AM.
03-16-2012, 06:30 AM   #447
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QuoteOriginally posted by filorp Quote
one should try and compare colours at iso above 3200. Recently i have done one wedding with d700 and k5 on pair - in a church so dark i could use iso 3200-4000 only i ended with black and white pictures from k5 where d700 still showed some nice tonals.... its not just about visible noise.....
Well partly this also does differ by the type of light available. I also shoot in a sportshal where there is some kind of greenish light and at high iso it does look horrible. In another venue it is more yellow/orange light and with iso 6400 it still looks great.
03-16-2012, 06:41 AM   #448
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
It probably is. But then will be the K-5. There is no noticeable advantage in IQ for the D700 over the K-5 (the K-5 has less shadow noise at low iso, the D700 at high iso -- so overall, it is a tie). Except that lenses on the D700 perform a bit sharper due to the lower magnification -- but then the K-5 has more MP, a tie again.
All I want from a FF camera is the lower noise and DOF flexibility offered from longer and faster lenses. I get tired of trying to get a certain DOF by opening up my wider lenses only to suffer contrast and CA issues when a FF would make it easier to get where I want with a more 'standard' focal length. I'd be quite happy if Ricoh released a FF 16 mpx sensor for the GXR with a combined K mount or Pentax released a 16mpx K-5 FF camera.
03-16-2012, 07:03 AM   #449
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QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote
Pushing this point further, I would suggest that having both FF and MF shooters in the Pentax brand would make it easier to justify a pro support network.
Chicken, meet Egg
03-16-2012, 07:33 AM   #450
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Easy shooting conditions = the great equalizer

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That's all?! Then why is everybody demanding a Pentax FF then? Seems rather unimportant if there is THAT little gain in IQ.
I think Falk may have spoken a little quickly, leaving out some pertinent info - at low ISOs, with good lenses, at apertures where you're not trying to take advantages of the FOV/DOF control, the D700 is mostly going to be indistinguishable from a K-5 (or almost any modern aps-c camera.) But this is also true, to a large degree, for a good point & shoot. That new Nokia 41MP phone camera is going to give you brilliant images as well at base ISO, where AF isn't an issue.

When the D700 (or D800) is going to help you is when you move up from base ISO, and into a bit more demanding shooting conditions - DR will be better on the D700, as will noise. And of course if you want to take advantage of the DOF control with wide-to-mid-telephoto, it's easier on FF. (Then there's the large VF, AF performance especially with tracking and low-light accuracy, etc, but those attributes are not directly image-related, just usage advantages.)

But if you shoot at f/8, base ISO, and don't need top-line AF, the K-5 is probably just as good or better for anyone. (as would be the K-01, in those conditions )

Check out this link - and select "D7000" (which aproximates the K-5) in the legend on the right to compare PDR to the D700:

---> Photographic Dynamic Range





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