Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-16-2012, 07:46 AM   #451
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,645
QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
But if you shoot at f/8, base ISO, and don't need top-line AF, the K-5 is probably just as good or better for anyone. (as would be the K-01, in those conditions )
Well with my FA*85mm the K-5 shines really at f8 and iso80 (or iso160). On the other hand with such settings and lens you can make a descent picture with almost any camera.

03-16-2012, 07:57 AM   #452
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,211
QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I think Falk may have spoken a little quickly, leaving out some pertinent info - at low ISOs, with good lenses, at apertures where you're not trying to take advantages of the FOV/DOF control, the D700 is mostly going to be indistinguishable from a K-5 (or almost any modern aps-c camera.) But this is also true, to a large degree, for a good point & shoot. That new Nokia 41MP phone camera is going to give you brilliant images as well at base ISO, where AF isn't an issue.

When the D700 (or D800) is going to help you is when you move up from base ISO, and into a bit more demanding shooting conditions - DR will be better on the D700, as will noise. And of course if you want to take advantage of the DOF control with wide-to-mid-telephoto, it's easier on FF. (Then there's the large VF, AF performance especially with tracking and low-light accuracy, etc, but those attributes are not directly image-related, just usage advantages.)

But if you shoot at f/8, base ISO, and don't need top-line AF, the K-5 is probably just as good or better for anyone. (as would be the K-01, in those conditions )

Check out this link - and select "D7000" (which aproximates the K-5) in the legend on the right to compare PDR to the D700:

---> Photographic Dynamic Range





.
nice link

looking at it after iso 400 the FF is better in every current model comparison. the projected numbers there for the 5D3 and D800 D4 show it better at all iso.
versus the current models though the K5/D7000 should be superior at sub 400 iso so in fact better for landscape shooters or studio shooters for instance (all other things being equal of course)
03-16-2012, 08:53 AM   #453
Veteran Member
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,228
QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
nice link

looking at it after iso 400 the FF is better in every current model comparison. the projected numbers there for the 5D3 and D800 D4 show it better at all iso.
versus the current models though the K5/D7000 should be superior at sub 400 iso so in fact better for landscape shooters or studio shooters for instance (all other things being equal of course)
One thing to be careful about in those links - Bill Claff has 'DX' mixed in there as well - that's the FF cameras being shot in crop (aps-c) mode, not native FF mode. If you choose a camera from the legend, make sure it's not 'DX' mode (unless that's what you really want to compare.)
03-16-2012, 09:32 AM   #454
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,211
QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
One thing to be careful about in those links - Bill Claff has 'DX' mixed in there as well - that's the FF cameras being shot in crop (aps-c) mode, not native FF mode. If you choose a camera from the legend, make sure it's not 'DX' mode (unless that's what you really want to compare.)
i noticed that in DX mode the D7000 beats the D700 at all iso
the D800/D800e beat the D7000 in DX mode at all iso (just barely - and these must be projected not tested #s i assume)

03-16-2012, 02:47 PM   #455
Veteran Member
bossa's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 4,538
QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
i noticed that in DX mode the D7000 beats the D700 at all iso
the D800/D800e beat the D7000 in DX mode at all iso (just barely - and these must be projected not tested #s i assume)
Do you mean that the D800 (in DX mode) beat the D7000? The way you wrote it you seem to be saying that the D7000 is in DX mode (which is is anyway).
03-16-2012, 03:37 PM   #456
Veteran Member
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,228
QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
Do you mean that the D800 (in DX mode) beat the D7000? The way you wrote it you seem to be saying that the D7000 is in DX mode (which is is anyway).
Yes, D800 in DX mode beats the D7000 natively in PDR at all ISO's. D700 in DX mode is below the D7000 up until about ISO 800, when they pretty much even out. (check out the D800 in native FF mode!)
03-16-2012, 04:08 PM   #457
Veteran Member
bossa's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 4,538
So you could run a D800 as a DX camera to control file size and get the extra magnification a APS-C would offer. It's 'only' 15mpx in DX mode though right? not that you'd probably notice although 1 million pixels should really matter to some extent.
03-16-2012, 04:14 PM   #458
Pentaxian
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,863
QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I think Falk may have spoken a little quickly
[...]
---> Photographic Dynamic Range
Actually, I thought to have given a fairly accurate statement there. I doesn't need that many words.

First, let me assure that I analyzed the D700 in fairly great detail (DxO style) wrt K-x back in 2009:
-> Falk Lumo: Lumolabs: Sensors of Nikon D700, D5000 and Pentax K-x

Esp., you may want to compare my DR sheet:
-> Lumolabs Nikon D700, Pentax K-x, Nikon D5000 - Falk Lumo's Photos

The differences, esp. at the -5EV DR test, are small and the K-5 was a significant improvement over the K-x.

If you refer to DxO as the reference on such matters
-> DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side

you see that K-5 has one stop advantage over the D700 at ISO 200 and below. While the D700 has one stop advantage at ISO 3200 and ISO 6400 (equal again above, refer to D7000 beyond ISO 1600 to avoid raw smoothening effects). That's a tie at best for the D700.

Wrt low light noise, the D700 has a 1 stop advantage at ISO 200 (where it doesn't really matter) which gradually vanishes up to ISO 12800 where K-5 (D7000) and D700 perform the same. So, overall, let's give the D700 a half stop advantage.

But then, the K-5 has more pixels.

So, and I have no doubt about this, wrt image quality, a K-5 and a D700 are equal.

However, there are some aspects of a full frame camera beyond image quality which may matter more:

- AF accuracy (my personal #1 advantage)
- Some lenses which have no APSC equivalents, allowing less DoF or a wider FoV.
- Lenses generally perform better.
- A larger VF (my least important reason except if you pair it with a focus screen for manual focus)


One last point of consideration: Last week, a friend of mine reported the following story: A photograph was kindly asked to stop shooting with his D700 in a theater: too loud. Another photograph with a K-5 sitting nearby was told he can continue, no problem. YMMV


So, what I want to say with all this:


I consider the D800 a step up beyond the K-5 (with the best Nikon glass). But not the D700.


===========

Moreover, please refrain from referring to the Photographic Dynamic Range measurements. The methodology is not on par with DxO's and the results are almost impossible to correctly interpret for the average reader. Refer to DxOmark instead.



If you wonder how all this can be:

You find the answer at Sensorgen - digital camera sensor data :

D700 38% 5.3 58111
D7000 48% 2.5 49058

Taking the pixel size into accout (which sensorgen misses to do), this reads:

D700 38% 5.3 58111
D7000 21% 2.1 66637 (normalized to D700 parameters)

So, the D700 has the higher equivalent quantum efficiency (which comes from bigger glass actually) while it has 150% more readout noiseand -- despite the larger sensor surface -- a smaller overall full well capacity!


Last edited by falconeye; 03-16-2012 at 04:28 PM.
03-16-2012, 04:19 PM   #459
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,645
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I consider the D800 a step up beyond the K-5 (with the best Nikon glass). But not the D700.
At a considderable different and hi pricetag!
03-16-2012, 04:20 PM   #460
Pentaxian
redrockcoulee's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 2,105
QuoteOriginally posted by Chex Quote
I would like something in that 120-300 f2.8 range for shooting my kids indoor sports and events on my soon to be D700 or D800.. depends if I can afford to sell one of my kidneys or not..
The 200-400 will simply be a pipe dream.. that is a pricey chunk of glass.
Yes it is big and expensive. Used one on my D200. Actaully the lens belonged to the owner of the camera it is just that I have borrowed the D200 4 years ago and have yet to return it.
03-16-2012, 04:27 PM   #461
Pentaxian
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,863
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
At a considderable different and hi pricetag!
Of course. With the gang of three F2.8 G-zooms, we talk about $8000 / 8000 here
03-16-2012, 04:54 PM   #462
Veteran Member
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,228
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote

Moreover, please refrain from referring to the Photographic Dynamic Range measurements. The methodology is not on par with DxO's and the results are almost impossible to correctly interpret for the average reader. Refer to DxOmark instead.
DxO has it's detractors as well! No, I think I'll continue to follow Dr Claff's work closely (in addition to a lot of other folks, you included.)

I hate to get into K-5 vs D700 arguments, because I like the K-5 and may and up buying a used one at some point, but I can't see (outside of size and price issues - which can be important) how someone could prefer the D7000 or K-5 over a D700 - it just doesn't add up, for general usage. Perhaps as a landscape camera... But my trials with the D7000 were unsatisfying, both with general image quality and especially with AF speed and accuracy.
03-16-2012, 05:12 PM   #463
Pentaxian
falconeye's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Munich, Alps, Germany
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,863
QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
both with general image quality and especially with AF speed and accuracy.
I conceded that AF is a big advantage for FF in general and for the D700 in particular (because it got Nikons MultiCam 3500).

And if you pair the D7000 with anything but top notch lenses, the FF format shows its advantages too.

But with lenses like the FA 31 or DA 60-250 and a rather accurate AF, the difference of a K-5 to a D700 isn't big. Overall, the D700 would probably produce more keepers. But I wouldn't buy a D700 if I already had a K-5. That was the only point I wanted to make originally.
03-16-2012, 05:21 PM   #464
Veteran Member
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,228
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I conceded that AF is a big advantage for FF in general and for the D700 in particular (because it got Nikons MultiCam 3500).

And if you pair the D7000 with anything but top notch lenses, the FF format shows its advantages too.
I trialed the D7000 for a week while I was in San Diego, and it occurred to me that I might like it more if I had a DA15ltd or DA35ltd to shoot on it. Yep, lenses matter big time for the overall experience. But still, I feel like I'd need to shoot Zeiss lenses (or the huge, $2000 zooms) on the D7000 to get that good mojo I get with the D700 with my $110 50 1.8D.

I do think I'd upgrade to a D700 if I had a K-5, personally - but it wouldn't be an easy decision. (Luckily for me, when I bought the D700, the K-5 wasn't out yet )


.
03-16-2012, 05:25 PM   #465
Pentaxian
RonHendriks1966's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,645
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Of course. With the gang of three F2.8 G-zooms, we talk about $8000 / €8000 here
Problem is that I don't have much use for a D800, but much more for a D4. Also a 14-24mm wouldn't make my day, but a 200-400mm/f4 would. Adding a 1,4xTC, flash and memory (strange I can't find XQD cards yet). Looking at a 16.000 euro bill!
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
nikon, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Picture of the Week POTW #181 Sept. 11, 2011-Sept 25, 2011 lukulele Weekly Photo Challenges 49 09-24-2011 01:00 AM
Picture of the Week POTW #180 Sept. 4, 2011-Sept 18, 2011 lukulele Weekly Photo Challenges 57 09-18-2011 06:30 AM
Pentax Q price rumor - $699 Adam Pentax News and Rumors 50 07-05-2011 07:08 AM
Rumor of Pentax D FA 645 25mm f/4 Noisychip Pentax News and Rumors 94 04-24-2011 02:41 PM
Rumor: One SLR, one prime plus two compacts on Sept. 9th Noisychip Pentax News and Rumors 75 09-09-2010 02:46 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:21 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top