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03-25-2012, 05:08 AM   #496
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
No way Jose! (Sorry, Falk.) D3s is the best 12MP camera body, followed
I didn't mean DxO numbers.

My reason to prefer the K-5 overall as a 12 MP camera is many fold. You are right, there are better cameras overall, like D3s or D800 as they all can be down sampled.

But for 12 MP, certain aspects are good enough, like AF accuracy, high iso performance, lenses etc. Then, other, secondary aspects emerge: shutter noise, video quality, compactness, built-in SR, available small primes, a nice and pretty build, good enough VF still beating EVFs etc. E.g., try to use the D700 in a theater or unnoticed in the streets or when climbing a mountain ... or a NEX for action or at night ...

Overall, considering the package, K-5 is IMHO the best 12 MP camera indeed.

03-25-2012, 05:30 AM   #497
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QuoteOriginally posted by WerTicus Quote
Why? if you can afford a D800 you can afford the storage space and computer requirements to handle a 36mp file. $1500 computer will manage it easily. (trust me i did just that with 645d files)
Absolutely true, put in a 6-core processor and in mirror two 3 TB storage with a nice videgraphics and 8 GB RAM and you are good to go. Ad a 27 inch screen with 2560x1440 resolution and an A3+ photoprinter and you have a complete set. For most people this is not yet what they have at home. The investment is about the same is as for a D800 body.
03-25-2012, 06:05 AM   #498
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Absolutely true, put in a 6-core processor and in mirror two 3 TB storage with a nice videgraphics and 8 GB RAM and you are good to go. Ad a 27 inch screen with 2560x1440 resolution and an A3+ photoprinter and you have a complete set. For most people this is not yet what they have at home. The investment is about the same is as for a D800 body.
$3000 to spend on an image processing system is not trivial, for most anyone. Even $1500 dedicated to a new system (ie bought for image processing 90% of the time) effectively makes the D800 a $4500 camera It's probably something you'll want to do, but it isn't a cost that can be shrugged off for most folks.

I have played with full-sized D800 NEFs in LR, and there is some slowdown from the 12MP files. The most annoying slowdown comes in response to slider activity - applying NR for example while zoomed showed me the results in real time before - now, there's a delay of about 2 to 3 seconds before I see the NR applied in the zoomed portion. Things like that - nothing show-stopperish, but annoying enough to probably require a computer upgrade.
03-25-2012, 06:05 AM   #499
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I didn't mean DxO numbers.

My reason to prefer the K-5 overall as a 12 MP camera is many fold. You are right, there are better cameras overall, like D3s or D800 as they all can be down sampled.

But for 12 MP, certain aspects are good enough, like AF accuracy, high iso performance, lenses etc. Then, other, secondary aspects emerge: shutter noise, video quality, compactness, built-in SR, available small primes, a nice and pretty build, good enough VF still beating EVFs etc. E.g., try to use the D700 in a theater or unnoticed in the streets or when climbing a mountain ... or a NEX for action or at night ...

Overall, considering the package, K-5 is IMHO the best 12 MP camera indeed.
Thanks for the qualifications, makes sense.

03-25-2012, 08:11 AM   #500
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I have played with full-sized D800 NEFs in LR, and there is some slowdown from the 12MP files. The most annoying slowdown comes in response to slider activity - applying NR for example while zoomed showed me the results in real time before - now, there's a delay of about 2 to 3 seconds before I see the NR applied in the zoomed portion. Things like that - nothing show-stopperish, but annoying enough to probably require a computer upgrade.
I think this will be the case for most users that are going into the D800 area.

Things to considder:
  • I'm running AMD, so I have a 6-core processor, but with Intel i7 you can get faster.
  • Get fast storage discs since they will slow you down. (put them in mirror so everything is save on your pc)
  • Install a SSD for all programs, that will make your PC faster.
  • Get 64-bit system running with at least 8 gig RAM
  • Get a fast videocard, with Display Port to support 10-bit colours to your screen.
  • Get a screen with 2560x1440 pixels in either 27 or 30 inch.
  • Be shure to have USB 3.0. You can do that at the backside or direct to your motherboard (only if this is supported), wich is faster.
  • Get fast cards for your camera, or everything will slow down again.

You see that such a system will cost more then you are used to.
03-25-2012, 08:13 AM   #501
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Absolutely true, put in a 6-core processor and in mirror two 3 TB storage with a nice videgraphics and 8 GB RAM and you are good to go. Ad a 27 inch screen with 2560x1440 resolution and an A3+ photoprinter and you have a complete set. For most people this is not yet what they have at home. The investment is about the same is as for a D800 body.
Ha! That's roughly what I have at home, but I had it for CFD. OK, the 2560x1440 I got for photography, and I don't have a printer, I farm that out.
03-25-2012, 08:32 AM   #502
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think this will be the case for most users that are going into the D800 area.

Things to considder:
  • I'm running AMD, so I have a 6-core processor, but with Intel i7 you can get faster.
  • Get fast storage discs since they will slow you down. (put them in mirror so everything is save on your pc)
  • Install a SSD for all programs, that will make your PC faster.
  • Get 64-bit system running with at least 8 gig RAM
  • Get a fast videocard, with Display Port to support 10-bit colours to your screen.
  • Get a screen with 2560x1440 pixels in either 27 or 30 inch.
  • Be shure to have USB 3.0. You can do that at the backside or direct to your motherboard (only if this is supported), wich is faster.
  • Get fast cards for your camera, or everything will slow down again.

You see that such a system will cost more then you are used to.
On another thread (or maybe earlier on this one) someone claimed a D800 was worth the money when considering the former expense of precessing film.

What digital has really done is shift the processing time onto everyone. Almost no enthusiasts and only a few pros (those few who have employees to do their post-processing) have the choice any more to pay someone else for processing.
03-25-2012, 08:35 AM   #503
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Processing - you're right, most here wouldn't pay someone else to do that (excepting checking the 'corrections' box at a lab for printing).

Printing - ahhh... I've never really printed my own pics. I always go to a lab. I've thought about getting a printer, but I'm not really super-disappointed in the lab's results.

Really, I don't want anyone else to do processing for me. Mrs. ElJamoquio always laughs at how much I like my pictures underexposed.

03-25-2012, 08:46 AM   #504
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
On another thread (or maybe earlier on this one) someone claimed a D800 was worth the money when considering the former expense of precessing film.
What most people don't realize is that they should dive into their stored pictures they have at this moment, select 50 % of the pictures and delete them (the bad halve of your pictures offcourse). Since when you move to D800 filesize you have to be more selective then with our current APS-C DSLR's.
03-25-2012, 09:40 AM   #505
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
What most people don't realize is that they should dive into their stored pictures they have at this moment, select 50 % of the pictures and delete them (the bad halve of your pictures offcourse). Since when you move to D800 filesize you have to be more selective then with our current APS-C DSLR's.
Now I do agree with that. My entire collection could be thinned way down and I'd never miss 'em. I'm sure of it...
03-25-2012, 09:47 AM   #506
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I think storage is cheap and getting cheaper. In the future we'll have cheap SSD.
I still keep most of my bad pictures because I'm hoping technology will improve and help me save some of those pictures. Look how far post-processing has come in the last 5 years.

How big are the Nikon raw files? Are the raw's compressed?
03-25-2012, 10:55 AM   #507
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Amen to that Ron, I recently dumped over 300 gigs worth of old image files, and I don't miss them in the slightest. Having to continuously upgrade computers is expensive yes, but a fact of life. As it is something would end up doing independently of photography, I'm not sure it's entirely fair to assign it completely to the photography budget. I'm running a quad-core AMD with 16 gigs or memory, with an SSD and a 2 mirrored 1TB optical drives and I don't fear the D800 Raw files in the slightest. Remember when we all thought storing all those K10D raw files would be a problem? The forward thrust of information technology in general tends to push such concerns aside on its own.
03-25-2012, 11:55 AM   #508
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
  • Get fast storage discs since they will slow you down. (put them in mirror so everything is save on your pc)
  • Install a SSD for all programs, that will make your PC faster.
  • Get 64-bit system running with at least 8 gig RAM
Well I did some of these. My laptop is kindy old, a Late 2008 Macbook: a simple 2GHz Core2Duo. But...
I upped RAM to 8GB. I also removed the barely used optical drive and replaced it with a 256GB SSD.

Lightroom configured to store catalog and (huge) cache on the SSD. Actual RAW files stored on a 500GB 5400rpm drive, soon to be replaced by a 7200rpm one.

This simple changed did a HUGE difference. Really. So same base with faster RAW disk and up to date CPUs would be even faster.
03-25-2012, 02:45 PM   #509
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processing is not a problem

with 800 or 1250$ I can buy a refurbished workstation

2x cpu, Intel Xeon*Quad Core*2.33 Ghz (E5345)
32 Gb ram ddr2 667mhz ECC
2x 147Gb 15.000 rpm SAS hard drive in raid 0 or 1
Nvidia Quadro fx4500 512mb gddr3
dvd optical drive
floppy drive
1000w pcu
server case

A setup like this can handle very easily 36mp raw, it even support 3840 x 2400 monitor.
Then add a good monitor and 2x 2Tb hard drive in raid 1.
03-25-2012, 03:09 PM   #510
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QuoteOriginally posted by befocus Quote
floppy drive
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