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01-07-2008, 04:21 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Live view doesn't seem to trump IS. Very hard to sell the Olympus E410 vs the K100D super. People wanted the IS more than the liveview.
Live View is more or less of a gimmick, as its use is very limited in day to day use.
SR is far more useful.

There are rumors that the 450D will provide video recording features. If that's the case, then maybe they should just lose the pentamirror and stick on an EVF...

01-07-2008, 05:39 PM   #17
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You think that Live View is a gimmick? I imagine that for tripod work (macro especially) and studio portraits it would be great. No more bending over to peer through the viewfinder. Especially with an articulating LCD.
01-07-2008, 05:54 PM   #18
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I would think that LV would be good for astrophotography, too. Sometimes it's hard to get a sharp focus on the stars through a small viewfinder at an odd angle (like when attached to a largish telescope).
01-07-2008, 05:59 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikeH Quote
You think that Live View is a gimmick? I imagine that for tripod work (macro especially) and studio portraits it would be great. No more bending over to peer through the viewfinder. Especially with an articulating LCD.
Maybe it's because I'm younger or whatnot, but I actually enjoy getting down on my hands and knees, whenever I have to do a trickier shot. I consider the occasional sock-full of sand very worthwhile.

QuoteOriginally posted by Duck Dodgers Quote
I would think that LV would be good for astrophotography, too. Sometimes it's hard to get a sharp focus on the stars through a small viewfinder at an odd angle (like when attached to a largish telescope).
That's exactly what Gordon Laing said. And good point. But I don't do astrophotography, and I doubt most people upgrading from P&S would even consider it. Same reason why mirror lockup isn't so popular.

01-07-2008, 06:04 PM   #20
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i read a review of the a700 on shutterbug, and sony didnt put live view in that one since it thought the technology is still not fully there yet.....

in addition, i also played around w/ an a700 at a best buy, and...wow..does it feel cheap.

when i first picked up the k10 at the ny photo expo, i was simply amazed at how solid it felt, and still am to this day when I pick it up.

as for the a200....typical sony..re-releasing their stuff w/ minor enhancements..
01-07-2008, 06:22 PM   #21
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I found the A100 (the only alpha I ever played with) a lot sturdier and easier to operate "on the fly" than... say... our old friend, the EOS 350D
01-07-2008, 09:11 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by -=JoN=- Quote
i read a review of the a700 on shutterbug, and sony didnt put live view in that one since it thought the technology is still not fully there yet.....
That's what Sony has been telling everyone, and their official excuse of being the last manufacturer to implement Live View - and obviously until they manage to get their own version out. I truly believe this could be one of the main factor hurting the sale of A700; which is less than stellar for a brand new camera.
01-07-2008, 09:40 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by ftpaddict Quote
I found the A100 (the only alpha I ever played with) a lot sturdier and easier to operate "on the fly" than... say... our old friend, the EOS 350D
Well, just about anything's sturdier and easier to operate than a DRebel. I seriously wonder at who sells those things to beginners, they're fragile and the interface is an utter mess and seems to get worse every iteration (The original was better built, had a better viewfinder and a slightly cleaner interface than the current two).

01-07-2008, 09:47 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
That's what Sony has been telling everyone, and their official excuse of being the last manufacturer to implement Live View - and obviously until they manage to get their own version out. I truly believe this could be one of the main factor hurting the sale of A700; which is less than stellar for a brand new camera.
I'd suspect the real limits on the sale of the A700 are:

1. Price, it was overpriced in comparison to the 40D. Pricing is better now, but it should have been $100 under the 40D rather than over it.

2. utter lack of first-party f2.8 zooms other than the (WAY) overpriced 70-200G SSM and the stocked-by-nobody 28-75 f2.8. Why Sony hasn't rebadged the Tamron 17-50 is a mystery to me (Sony owns ~10% of Tamron and many of the Alpha lenses are rebadged Tamrons or slight modifications. All the Sony-branded DT series except the 18-70 and 16-105 are Tamron, as is the 17-35 f2.8-4 and 28-75 f2.8). People will want 1st party zooms to match a body this capable and Sony hasn't delivered. Sure the Zeiss 16-80 is a superb lens, with optics that can match a lot of L glass, but f3.5-4.5 doesn't cut it.

3. Serious battery supply issues. It was well over a month before a reasonable amount of spare batteries were available, ditto the vertical grip. And it didn't help that the A100 battery was discontinued (A100 can use A700/A200's battery, but the reverse isn't true) putting A100 users in competition for the limited supply of batteries.
01-07-2008, 10:47 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by mawz Quote
It gets the A700's processing and interface updates (Uber Fn menu, far better than the Pentax version as you can change every setting listed on the LCD), adds a grip, a real info-lithium battery (Same as A700, 1% increment battery life with accurate predictions) and faster AF. This is what the (Rather) underwhelming A100 should have been. Body design is similar, and so is the sensor (apparently there's some sort of on-chip NR, so it's another variant of the K10D sensor, not the same version).

Pricing is reasonable as long as you remember that nobody other than Sony will sell this for list. List on the A100 is well over the K10D but it sells for the same price as a D40X on the actual market.
It's main thing is to believe in faster AF.
A100 has a lot of problems with BF/FF and has no AF adjustment menu.
I am not sure that A200 will be better.
As for A700's processing in A200 I don't see any official information.
And it's unreal for such price of A200.
It's simply "A100 on steroids " which Sony calls A200. It's great marketing trick.
01-08-2008, 08:15 AM   #26
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QuoteQuote:
It's great marketing trick.
Is it? I don't know how well the A100 is selling, but the A200 is far too similar to its predecessor to attract that much attention. And no matter how much $$$ Sony pours into marketing the product, if it's crap, it doesn't sell. (someone could mention the 350/400D here, but those sell on legacy alone)
01-08-2008, 08:20 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by ftpaddict Quote
Is it? I don't know how well the A100 is selling, but the A200 is far too similar to its predecessor to attract that much attention. And no matter how much $$$ Sony pours into marketing the product, if it's crap, it doesn't sell. (someone could mention the 350/400D here, but those sell on legacy alone)
The thing is: Sony has an image in photography but only for guys coming from P&S and at that only digital P&S since Sony in photo market is pretty recent. They have no image in SLR industry, they should have kept Minolta name.

Canon (and Nikon) will always be able to sell crap cameras (not I do not mean they are all, really not). They just have the image of THE company. Like an Intel for example. Some people still think AMD cpus are "not compatible" or whatever BS and disinformation they can eat. This is exactly the same.
01-08-2008, 09:00 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by ftpaddict Quote
Is it? I don't know how well the A100 is selling, but the A200 is far too similar to its predecessor to attract that much attention. And no matter how much $$$ Sony pours into marketing the product, if it's crap, it doesn't sell. (someone could mention the 350/400D here, but those sell on legacy alone)
There's too much space between the A200 and A700 in terms of features and price. There might be an in-betweener. The A200 looks like a competitor for the D40x space.

QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
The thing is: Sony has an image in photography but only for guys coming from P&S and at that only digital P&S since Sony in photo market is pretty recent. They have no image in SLR industry, they should have kept Minolta name.

Canon (and Nikon) will always be able to sell crap cameras (not I do not mean they are all, really not). They just have the image of THE company. Like an Intel for example. Some people still think AMD cpus are "not compatible" or whatever BS and disinformation they can eat. This is exactly the same.
Agreed about Sony keeping the Minolta name, but then a lot of the new kids wanting to move up to DSLRs know Sony more than they ever did Minolta, so it might be a good thing in the long run. At least I think there are more Sony fans than Minolta fans, so it's an easier sell, and a "sure thing", at least for a lot of consumers.

As for Canon, yes, they do resort to "evangelizing", but it's probably nowhere near as bad as what Microsoft does. As for Nikon, lately, they've managed to find and create market niches (seen in the success of the D40). And the image that they have as THE company, they created it over time and successful products, R&D, marketing, etc. Pentax certainly had their time as THE company, too, and is a good bet to recapture that image in the near future.
01-08-2008, 11:44 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
They have no image in SLR industry, they should have kept Minolta name.

The Minolta brand/company still exists, and leasing the name would have been costly. I'm not trying to imply that Sony are being cheap (), but they are an ambitious company and are trying to make a name for themselves in the field of more serious photography. After all, it's a very trendy thing, nowadays (see - Panasonic & Fujifilm)
01-08-2008, 12:06 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It's main thing is to believe in faster AF.
A100 has a lot of problems with BF/FF and has no AF adjustment menu.
I am not sure that A200 will be better.
As for A700's processing in A200 I don't see any official information.
And it's unreal for such price of A200.
It's simply "A100 on steroids " which Sony calls A200. It's great marketing trick.
The big giveaway on the processing is the ISO3200 option and the presence of the Bionz engine in the specs (same as the A700, but not the A100). The A100 was really nothing more than a slightly restyled KM 5D with a 10MP sensor and a larger buffer and this showed in the fact that a processing pipeline designed for the Sony 6MP sensor simply couldn't handle the noise of the 10MP sensor. The interfaces are near-identical between the 5D and A100. The A200 is similar, but gets a completely updated interface from the A700, new grip, new battery and a completely new mainboard (Indicated by the reversed CF card slot, which would require a completely new board). These two cameras are very similar cosmetically and share a sensor, but those are the sole similarities. The A100's AF issues are shared by the 5D as well.
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