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04-03-2012, 10:08 AM   #226
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I don't know about other countries, but here in the US, it's tax refund season. Pentax could not have timed it any worse unless they did this at Christmas time. No one in their right mind would pay $1,499.95 for a DA*16-50 with their refund money.
Coincedentally, the Fuji Xpro1 is selling for $1700. Which one will the average consumer, or any consumer, flock to?
Especially with a 1 year warranty and SDM concerns. HornetNest

04-03-2012, 10:10 AM   #227
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QuoteOriginally posted by krebsy97 Quote
If Pentax becomes "upscale" they will be abandoning their current market: consumer enthusiasts of photography
What do you think Pentax was in the 60's? The 70's? The 80's?

They're returning to their roots and the way the did business when they built their business. Don't forget Ricoh and Pentax had a strong symbiotic relationship for many years. Ricoh knows the business better than many people think they do. And don't forget the loyal employees of Pentax - they've been around the block a few times.

I (I hope gently) chide PentaxUSA for their (lack of) actions on a regular basis - but it isn't because they are incompetent. They're probably quite competent, but there is only so much you can do when directed from headquarters.

I've written before that my company was bought by a smaller company in 2009. We're only just this month finally converging all our systems and processes. Until now we have operated as separate divisions even though we completely overlap in our products and markets. At the end of the day our expteranl presence will be what my companty was. Internally and by senior exeecutive we are more like the buyer than our old company. I suspect that will be something close to the truth at Pentax Ricoh Imaging Co., Ltd.

This will take some time, but we'll be happy at the end.

Last edited by monochrome; 04-03-2012 at 10:19 AM.
04-03-2012, 10:18 AM   #228
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
What do you think Pentax was in the 60's? The 70's? The 80's?

They're returning to their roots and the way the did business when they built their business. Don't forget Ricoh and Pentax had a strong synmbiotic relationship for many years. Ricoh knows the business better than many people think they do. And don't forget the poyal emploees of Pentax - they've been around the block a few times. I (I hope gently) chide PentaxUSA for their (lack of) actions on a regular basis - but it isn't because they are incompetent. They probably quite competent, but there is only so much you can do when directed from headquarters.

I've written beofre that my company was bought by a smaller company in 2009. We're only just this month finally converging all our systems and processes. Until now we have operated as separate divisions even though we completely overlap in our products and markets.

This will take some time, but we'll be happy at the end.
We'll be happy? You mean the dozens that will be left after this year?
04-03-2012, 10:19 AM   #229
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
What do you think Pentax was in the 60's? The 70's? The 80's?

They're erturning to the roots and the way the did business when they built their business.
Why not have a product line in place for professionals first before they jack up the prices to professional rates. Come out with a $3000 FF and a series of DFA* lenses that command respect for their quality, performance and warranties and charge top dollar for those.

04-03-2012, 10:23 AM - 2 Likes   #230
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
Why not have a product line in place for professionals first before they jack up the prices to professional rates. Come out with a $3000 FF and a series of DFA* lenses that command respect for the quality, performance and warranties and charge top dollar for those.
With all due respect, I was referring to the fact that Pentax has always been an enthusiasrts company excpet for the LX which nearly killed them, and the MZ-D which nearly killed them again.

Why should they? Because you don't want to pay more? Are you sure that's the best thing for the brand long-term?

First, they haven't jacked up rates. Look at the K-5. Webstore $1,199, Dealer $1,099. That's the future. Until the lens inventory in the existing warehouses and dealers (and resellers) is normalized prices will be weird.

The professional stuff might or might not happen (I think it will), but they have to rebuild the distribution channel for the consumer enthusiasts first. Where on earth would they get the money to offer pro services without a channel? You think a pro is going to Best Buy to lease a camera?

I don't like this any better than you do, but this is only the second day. This will sort itself out.
04-03-2012, 10:28 AM   #231
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
With all due respect, I was referring to the fact that Pentax has always been an enthusiasrts company excpet for the LX which nearly killed them, and the MZ-D which nearly killed them again.

The professional stuff might or might not happen (I think it will), but they have to rebuild the distribution channel for the consumer enthusiasts first. Where on earth would they get the money to offer pro services without a channel? You think a pro is going to Best Buy to lease a camera?

I don't like this any better than you do, but this is only the second day. This will sort itself out.
I think Ricoh has enough money and sway to get them into the pro sector, if that's what they want. I don't really care about that though. I have nearly everything I want. Except for a DA15 or a DA12-24 and I'm probably going Tamron for my sports zoom anyways. I do not want people fleeing the brand though. We will see, it will sort itself out, and we will vote with our wallets. Ricoh will have to drop the MSRP or stop selling lenses. Ricoh seeing us voice our displeasure on a public forum of their most loyal customers may have some effect.
04-03-2012, 10:32 AM   #232
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
I think Ricoh has enough money and sway to get them into the pro sector, if that's what they want. I don't really care about that though. I have nearly everything I want. Except for a DA15 or a DA12-24 and I'm probably going Tamron for my sports zoom anyways. I do not want people fleeing the brand though. We will see, it will sort itself out, and we will vote with our wallets. Ricoh will have to drop the MSRP or stop selling lenses. Ricoh seeing us voice our displeasure on a public forum of their most loyal customers may have some effect.
Maybe - but right now the USA is a fly speck on Pentax's quarterly sales sheet. I recall Adam saying the K-01 sold a few tens at B&H, and briefly sold out - making it a success. Unless he was being totally fascetious (and he was probably poking fun at the Q) a few tens is meaningless to Pentax.
04-03-2012, 10:43 AM   #233
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
One step at a time. This is the first step. Lens prices won't stay here long (end of summer?). Major new product announcements aren't that far away. This is a Field-of-Battle preparation step.

The two years is to fully establish the major-city B&M presence. The one-man camera shop is basically gone and Ritz is going out again, I think.
You know, I tend to agree with you that Ricoh has a plan. I also think that long-term things will be better. However, and this is obviously my own perspective, Ricoh has really messed up in the US on this one. They want to rebuild distribution through ADs in the US with real B&M stores. Ok, but you need motivated and qualified people who can lay out a plan, implement it with finesse, and follow-through. Do ANY of those characteristics rush to mind in describing the management of Pentax Imaging? Seriously, ANY of them?

04-03-2012, 10:49 AM   #234
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I see Pentax's brand positioning above Canikon consumer but below Canikon professional. This niche appeals to me and many others. It's an area where Pentax can continue to differentiate itself if it chooses to.

I know there's a subset of folks who want to see Pentax go head-to-head with Canikon on the professional level. I just don't see the point when it's already being occupied by the Big 2. Not to mention the resources it will take to do this correctly.
04-03-2012, 11:01 AM   #235
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
MHO you understand precisely Ricoh's plan. I am always amazed when a poster threatens to go to Canon for a FF or more "professional" support and a 1.4x TC or a shoe-mount EVF or a generally broader lens lineup - then threatens to go to Canon when less prices rise. You can have one or the other but not both low prices and high service.
That's just it though. Pentax-Ricoh has not increased service commensurate with price increases, nor have they brought their whole system up to par, either in breadth or depth. The value of the Pentax brand is in its unique offerings. There are lenses in this stable you simply cannot find elsewhere. We overlook the inferior warranties, customer service network and robustness of the overall ecosystem because of this uniqueness and the comparatively low prices it has been sold at.

You're right that you can't have low prices and high services. But you also can't have high prices and poor services. If they want this to be acceptable they need to increase the value of the brand as a whole, not just the price. Sticker shock is not going to impress anybody into making a purchase; on the contrary, if a prospective buyer cannot see much relative value to the brand beyond the overpriced lens he's considering, he's going to look elsewhere. What Pentax-Ricoh needs to do -- what they probably should have done before this brutal increase -- is increase the value of the brand by addressing its numerous shortcomings in a very public, proactive way. This move strikes me as premature and too eager.

As an existing customer, I'm asking myself: what new benefit do I get by staying with the brand at these new prices? So far, I see none. Imagine what customers who don't already have an investment in Pentax are thinking.
04-03-2012, 11:13 AM   #236
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Yay, we get to pay more for the same equipment and same support, so now we can say it's "pro-grade". LOL

Here's what Ricoh/Pentax should have done, if they wanted to hike up the prices: effective immediately, all new Pentax lenses covered are by a 5 year warranty. Owners of a current SDM lens that has malfunctioned due to an SDM-related issue is eligible for a free repair (minus shipping) until xx/xx/xxxx date. And, introduce a loyalty program where Pentax users get $xx rebate on a purchase.

We'd still be moaning and groaning about the price increase, but it would be abundantly obvious that Pentax was looking to evolve.
04-03-2012, 11:16 AM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Yay, we get to pay more for the same equipment and same support, so now we can say it's "pro-grade". LOL
That's how I feel, too, assuming it doesn't work itself out.

I think this is just a bit of confusion between Pentax and the retailers, though. We'll see.
04-03-2012, 11:19 AM   #238
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Here's what Ricoh/Pentax should have done, if they wanted to hike up the prices: effective immediately, all new Pentax lenses covered are by a 5 year warranty. Owners of a current SDM lens that has malfunctioned due to an SDM-related issue is eligible for a free repair (minus shipping) until xx/xx/xxxx date. And, introduce a loyalty program where Pentax users get $xx rebate on a purchase.
.
It's altogether possible some of those ideas are in the implementation stages and I do believe the pricing is still confusion between dealers and Pentax to some degree. I think the K5 price at 1099 (1199 Pentax web store) probably more accurately reflects here things are headed
04-03-2012, 11:26 AM   #239
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I sincerely hope you fellas are correct.
04-03-2012, 11:30 AM   #240
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Pentax lenses have always been out of my price range so its makes no difference to me. Though I do think they should be more accessible to all not those with a fat wallet. I have just taken delivery of a Sigma DG 70 - 300 and for the money it is spot on. cant fault it.
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