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04-03-2012, 11:40 AM   #241
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Well, the prices are exactly the same as those on pentaxwebstore.com
I doubt Pentax suddenly wanted to raise prices that much, not a cent under MSRP, as a part of a strategy which should increase their market share (declared scope). Probably those aren't the real prices.

Btw, I'm willing to pay a fair price for a Pentax lens, and I'd rather have quality than slightly lower prices (DA*s with ring-type SDM, ok, Pentax? ).

04-03-2012, 11:52 AM - 1 Like   #242
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A new DA*50-135 for the price of a new X-Pro body is insanity to my way of thinking? I'm not sure I understand how you can expect to sell more gas than ever if you raise the price to almost double? ....and lenses are certainly in less demand than gas.

As for Ricoh taking Pentax up a notch in respectability and quality....show me? So far I haven't seen anything but a K-01 and a Q and I doubt either of these made any Professionals stand up to attention and catch their breath? Granted, these were most likely Hoya developments, and not Ricoh, so we are still without a clue as to where Ricoh is taking Pentax.....it could be up or it could be down, and I haven't seen any indication anyone else has a clue either?
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04-03-2012, 12:28 PM   #243
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Ah hell, I give up. Complain away!!

But do it on Adorama and B&H's threads or PM B&H-Chuck and Helen Oster and ask them why they raised their prices.
04-03-2012, 12:39 PM   #244
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on the other complaint thread someone pointed out that part of the adjustment may be coming from an adjustment for the decline in value of the US dollar. makes sense to me
Pentax Canada made adjustments that brought us mostly in line with the US a while back due to the rise in our dollar but in many cases on lenses we were still higher

04-03-2012, 12:47 PM   #245
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Ah hell, I give up. Complain away!!

But do it on Adorama and B&H's threads or PM B&H-Chuck and Helen Oster and ask them why they raised their prices.
Please, stop making sense! That's not what reasonable people would do, on internet forums
04-03-2012, 12:53 PM   #246
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Whether or not the changes have been part of a sound business plan, they have absolutely been part of a terrible p/r plan. A brand that already appears to be down, and which is beginning to look like a joke to outsiders, is probably not in the best position to announce an increase in prices without also announcing a benefit for consumers, or some other justification. Especially since one of the supposed benefits of the K-01 is that its image quality / price ratio is high.
04-03-2012, 12:53 PM   #247
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Here's the problem in the US - there is no longer a national dealer network at all. Sourced from Ace Camera

In Canada you have at least 4 major chains
  • 181 - Blacks stores
  • 89 - Camera Expert stores
  • 140 - Foto Source stores
  • 188 - Japan Camera stores
USA only has one national chain and we know what happened. At the link above you can search each state for the smaller, local chains - there are 5 or 6 in each state, then New York and California are huge. Pentax Canada can make their dealer network operate fairly easily. The USA is a real challenge.
  • 1300 - Ritz Camera (oops)
  • 5 or 6 small chains in each state
In 2009 Pentax USA announced they were shifting to a low-priced, high volume, low margin, low service model using large retailers and internet sales. Managing the process of change to a service-oriented dealer network will take a long time. They have to start somewhere.

When Morgan Stanley hired a new chairman in 2005 the first thing he did was terminate the bottom 20% of the producers by revenue (remember, a financial advisor is 100% commission - the company owes them nothing).

The remaining 80% were absolutely horrified for about 2 weeks - then they realized the benefit to them of the new plan. They moved on. Revenue per producer, profits, and market share immediately grew 20% and kept growing. Sometime you just have to make a major change and then manage the results.

There is a plan. It will be apparent to us when ever it becomes apparent, and not before.
04-03-2012, 12:53 PM   #248
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i hate you Pentax Prices have increased their lead?
Do not they know will lose users?


04-03-2012, 12:56 PM   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
There is a plan. It will be apparent to us when ever it becomes apparent, and not before.
Uh... I was with you until this part.

Really, no matter what the plan was, this was poor execution (unless the final prices are actual final prices, in which case this is lunacy).
04-03-2012, 01:00 PM   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Ah hell, I give up. Complain away!!

But do it on Adorama and B&H's threads or PM B&H-Chuck and Helen Oster and ask them why they raised their prices.
First of all, I think it's entirely appropriate for people to complain in this thread. I'm not sure why you think people should have to do it in a B&H thread. Is it really that surprising to you that people are unhappy about the pricing increase?

Secondly, I have submitted a thread to the "Ask B&H" forum, asking for their perspective on the pricing increase, and if there is a benefit for consumers. The thread I submitted is currently subject to approval. Assuming it is approved, it will be interesting to hear what B&H has to say.
04-03-2012, 01:10 PM   #251
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Here's the problem in the US - there is no longer a national dealer network at all. Sourced from Ace Camera

In Canada you have at least 4 major chains
  • 181 - Blacks stores
  • 89 - Camera Expert stores
  • 140 - Foto Source stores
  • 188 - Japan Camera stores
USA only has one national chain and we know what happened. At the link above you can search each state for the smaller, local chains - there are 5 or 6 in each state, then New York and California are huge. Pentax Canada can make their dealer network operate fairly easily. The USA is a real challenge.
  • 1300 - Ritz Camera (oops)
  • 5 or 6 small chains in each state
In 2009 Pentax USA announced they were shifting to a low-priced, high volume, low margin, low service model using large retailers and internet sales. Managing the process of change to a service-oriented dealer network will take a long time. They have to start somewhere.

When Morgan Stanley hired a new chairman in 2005 the first thing he did was terminate the bottom 20% of the producers by revenue (remember, a financial advisor is 100% commission - the company owes them nothing).

The remaining 80% were absolutely horrified for about 2 weeks - then they realized the benefit to them of the new plan. They moved on. Revenue per producer, profits, and market share immediately grew 20% and kept growing. Sometime you just have to make a major change and then manage the results.

There is a plan. It will be apparent to us when ever it becomes apparent, and not before.
Sorry but Blacks is a tiny store chain in shopping malls small selection no matter what they carry - lots of stores but no real selection
Japan camera is even worse but essentially the same idea
Foto source is not actually a chain but a marketing group that independants join to get access to better buying power. the member stores may be more a print shop than a camera store. and can be as big as Carmens who run prodigital2000 on ebay
Camera Expert is a French Canadian variation on Foto source.

These marketing groups actually are the reason many small local stores survived but just because you do buisiness with foto source doesn't mean all the dealers will carry your product

Henrys is by far the biggest volume camera chain in Canada, even though they don't have the number of store a blacks or japan camera does. they do have much larger selections and generally well informed staff

Pentax Canada certainly has a much smaller hill to climb than Pentax USA though. Henrys doesn't really stock it heavy in most stores and there was talk of just making it web bound except at the flagship. they have actually done that to some degree. I don't shop henrys much for Pentax because right around the corner is a very good indy who stock most items and has better staff IMO.
04-03-2012, 01:10 PM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
on the other complaint thread someone pointed out that part of the adjustment may be coming from an adjustment for the decline in value of the US dollar. makes sense to me
Pentax Canada made adjustments that brought us mostly in line with the US a while back due to the rise in our dollar but in many cases on lenses we were still higher
Wasn't that a portion of the justification for the price increase a couple of years ago?
04-03-2012, 01:11 PM   #253
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You know, Pentax Japan can have the Best Plan EVER on paper but they'll loose customers with implementation like what we have seen thus far in the US. I know that Ricoh already took Canon on in their own back yard and beat them, so it's very likely they can do it again. The problem here is that Pentax Imaging has zero credibility, zero skill, and zero energy to address anyone about anything in a timely and professional manner IMHO. So, what we have here this week is an example of a poorly executed plan that leaves the current loyal customers both confused and angry - this is not a good start to building a brand, again IMHO.
04-03-2012, 01:24 PM   #254
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Here's the problem in the US - there is no longer a national dealer network at all.
In Germany, Pentax deals with every store of the national dealer networks on an individual base, even within a city. Some offer great Pentax service and good choice (e.g., Saturn in Berlin -- the store department manager is actually even a participating member here), some aren't even allowed to sell Pentax anymore.

So, I don't see how national dealer networks are a desirable thing. Some of the best stores in Germany are individual stores.

E.g., there are like 300 Apple retail stores in the US. Certainly enough to represent a brand. Pentax could just pick 200 to 300 stores and care about them. A single Pentax sales person could visit all of them within a single year. Where is the problem?

Last edited by falconeye; 04-03-2012 at 01:29 PM.
04-03-2012, 01:25 PM   #255
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Uh... I was with you until this part.

Really, no matter what the plan was, this was poor execution (unless the final prices are actual final prices, in which case this is lunacy).
QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
First of all, I think it's entirely appropriate for people to complain in this thread. I'm not sure why you think people should have to do it in a B&H thread. Is it really that surprising to you that people are unhappy about the pricing increase?

Secondly, I have submitted a thread to the "Ask B&H" forum, asking for their perspective on the pricing increase, and if there is a benefit for consumers. The thread I submitted is currently subject to approval. Assuming it is approved, it will be interesting to hear what B&H has to say.
Well the thing is, if you REALLY were going to buy a lens this week and could have bought it last week you should complain. Otherwise the price changes don't really affect anything but your dreams.

So far we've seen the Maximum acceptable price (MSRP). We haven't seen the minimum acceptable price yet, and we won't until the MSRP is established as the price.

This is a step. In a plan. There are many steps in the plan.

We'd all be more comfortable if PentaxUSA would tell us what they are doing. They can't tell us. They can't actually set the prices. The dealers actually set the prices. After all, they're the ones selling the lenses, not Pentax. I find it interesting that they all moved to MSRP sequentially, one after the other, as if somebody was paying attention to what the competitors were doing.
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