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04-03-2012, 01:30 PM   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Uh... I was with you until this part.

Really, no matter what the plan was, this was poor execution (unless the final prices are actual final prices, in which case this is lunacy).
Q: What do you think of Pentax's execution?

A: I'm all for it!



04-03-2012, 01:30 PM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
In Germany, Pentax deals with every store of the national dealer networks on an individual base, even within a city. Some offer great Pentax service and good choice (e.g., Saturn in Berlin -- the store department manager is actually even a participating member here), some aren't even allowed to sell Pentax anymore.

So, I don't see how national dealer networks are a desirable thing. Some of the best stores in Germany are individual stores.
Pentax USA doesn't have enough employees to deal with every single camera store of every chain in the US. Again, geography is part of the problem - you just don't have enough time to do all the traveling and make the calls and you can't make enough income as a salesman if you can't make a lot of calls. Pentax can't pay the number of salesmen necessary to cover all the stores enough money to keep them from moving to Canon or Nikon. That was already happening 10 years ago.

That's why P-USA went to a Box Store format in the first place.
04-03-2012, 01:32 PM   #258
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Pentax USA doesn't have enough employees to deal with every single camera store of every chain in the US.
Not if they spend their hours working. I extended my post above, have a look.
04-03-2012, 01:33 PM   #259
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Just watch what's going to happen with everything "Pentax" lenses at the Marketplace.

I have a feeling that sellers will jump in the bandwagon and "adjust" their prices accordingly.
Maybe I should list my FA 31mm Ltd for $2000 and see what happens !?

JP

04-03-2012, 01:35 PM   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Q: What do you think of Pentax's execution?

A: I'm all for it!

I've said right along this will be the test of Ned and John. I made a thread comparing the EU websites to the USA website when the K-01 was announced. We didn't have a K-01 front page link until two weeks after it was released.

I said in late January, If I was Ned and John I'd be looking over my shoulder or just plain looking.

If this is because the dealers are confused - if they don't know what price to post so they went to MSRP, whose fault is that?
04-03-2012, 01:40 PM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I've said right along this will be the test of Ned and John. I made a thread comparing the EU websites to the USA website when the K-01 was announced. We didn't have a K-01 front page link until two weeks after it was released.

I said in late January, If I was Ned and John I'd be looking over my shoulder or just plain looking.

If this is because the dealers are confused - if they don't know what price to post so they went to MSRP, whose fault is that?
I was just thinking of the old John McKay line from when he coached the 1976 Tampa Bay Bucs, who went 0-14.
04-03-2012, 01:46 PM   #262
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Heh, there's a guy in the marketplace selling his Pentax 60-250 for $1800!
04-03-2012, 01:48 PM   #263
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Heh, there's a guy in the marketplace selling his Pentax 60-250 for $1800!
Or get them here for $1199 shipped while they last...

04-03-2012, 01:48 PM - 1 Like   #264
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Ok, here is another scenario.

What would a company, that recently introduced a new lens roadmap and several new cameras, have to do to produce a new (or multiple) lens line(s), with the same amount of production facilities?

How do they...

1. Maintain product in the channel while production is shut down for re-tooling?
2. Slow down buying to preserve inventory?
3. Make sure that the customer buys the new lenses when they come out?
4. Phase out production of legacy lenses?
5. Create new sales agreements and targets?
6. Maintain inventory to support 2 replacement DSLRs and a possible FF DSLR while retooling?
7. Supply lenses in addition to the above cameras to the new additions as in - there will be a K -> Q adapter, lenses for the K-01 and a possible GXR K module demand.

Answer; You raise prices. Hire back lens engineers. Retool. Avoid having "nothing to sell" in the interim. Seems like business is good in the long run.

Sounds familiar
04-03-2012, 01:48 PM   #265
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
In Germany, Pentax deals with every store of the national dealer networks on an individual base, even within a city. Some offer great Pentax service and good choice (e.g., Saturn in Berlin -- the store department manager is actually even a participating member here), some aren't even allowed to sell Pentax anymore.

So, I don't see how national dealer networks are a desirable thing. Some of the best stores in Germany are individual stores.

E.g., there are like 300 Apple retail stores in the US. Certainly enough to represent a brand. Pentax could just pick 200 to 300 stores and care about them. A single Pentax sales person could visit all of them within a single year. Where is the problem?
I agree, the worst chains here are the ones with the most stores. the best stores are almost all independents (most of whom belong to a buying group)
the in between is the 1 big box type chain Henrys which is a camera specialty big box they do a good job but a good independant is still better
04-03-2012, 01:49 PM   #266
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
E.g., there are like 300 Apple retail stores in the US. Certainly enough to represent a brand. Pentax could just pick 200 to 300 stores and care about them. A single Pentax sales person could visit all of them within a single year. Where is the problem?
Once a year in the USA doesn't come close to often enough to garner a retail relationship. Once a month is the standard. I have 109 clients. I call on each client physically (at their location) every 15, 30, 45 or 90 days, dependent upon revenue. My gross sales are above $475,000,000. My gross revenue (margin) is around 1.2%. My net income is a (small) percentage of that. I have a protected territory defined by my employer and I may not call outside that territory. I drive to every call. I don't walk and I don't fly - neither is profitable.

The USA is structured differently than Europe. Everything hinges on personal visits. At the B2B level, little happens on the internet. At the B2C level, everything happens on the internet. In St. Louis, there is ONE camera store that services every professional shooter here. There are SIX camera stores that service consumers. The Pentax Sales rep territory couldn't physically be larger than a 225 mile radius, excluding Chicago, which might be 100 camera stores. You could make 600 calls a year in that territory, but you can't make enough sales to generate enough revenue to make enough money to feed your family, and three weeks a month you'd not be at home on weeknights. Nobody will live that way - they can't keep the sales force.

So first they have to improve market share here. To do that it looks like they think they have to break the BigBox model and then start over.
LaurenOE
What would a company, that recently introduced a new lens roadmap and several new cameras, have to do to produce a new (or multiple) lens line(s), with the same amount of production facilities?

How do they...

1. Maintain product in the channel while production is shut down for re-tooling?
2. Slow down buying to preserve inventory?
3. Make sure that the customer buys the new lenses when they come out?
4. Phase out production of legacy lenses?
5. Create new sales agreements and targets?
6. Maintain inventory to support 2 replacement DSLRs and a possible FF DSLR while retooling?
7. Supply lenses in addition to the above cameras to the new additions as in - there will be a K -> Q adapter, lenses for the K-01 and a possible GXR K module demand.

Answer; You raise prices. Hire back lens engineers. Retool. Avoid having "nothing to sell" in the interim. Seems like business is good in the long run.
And I should be working now.
04-03-2012, 01:52 PM   #267
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I have a brand new one on the way... yours for $1800.
04-03-2012, 01:54 PM   #268
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QuoteOriginally posted by eljamoquio Quote
i have a brand new one on the way... Yours for $1800.
omg i no u luv me !!!!!!1!!1
04-03-2012, 02:16 PM   #269
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Well the thing is, if you REALLY were going to buy a lens this week and could have bought it last week you should complain. Otherwise the price changes don't really affect anything but your dreams.

So far we've seen the Maximum acceptable price (MSRP). We haven't seen the minimum acceptable price yet, and we won't until the MSRP is established as the price.

This is a step. In a plan. There are many steps in the plan.

We'd all be more comfortable if PentaxUSA would tell us what they are doing. They can't tell us. They can't actually set the prices. The dealers actually set the prices. After all, they're the ones selling the lenses, not Pentax. I find it interesting that they all moved to MSRP sequentially, one after the other, as if somebody was paying attention to what the competitors were doing.

You know, the "PentaxUSA ...can't tell us." is a copout - they never tell us anything, hell they don't even update their website in a timely and meaningful way.
04-03-2012, 02:23 PM   #270
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WELL frankly the biggest issues here is the near 100% price increases on the da* line of lenses. Particularly the 16-50 and the 50-135.. There is a reason the market drove the prices of these lenses down.. The both have problems that pro grade lenses should not have.

The good news is that for those of us who use primes, glass didn't increase in cost that much.
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