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04-04-2012, 05:01 AM   #346
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I agree parsons. I love my DA 21mm, just got my FA 77mm and want more of these little guys! For IQ and build quality they are very impressive, and very satisfying to use.

04-04-2012, 05:05 AM   #347
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The americans received EUROPEAN prices. We have such prices for years. Some lenses are still cheaper in States.

Last edited by ogl; 04-04-2012 at 05:12 AM.
04-04-2012, 05:25 AM   #348
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
Something strange is happening in the camera industry. Canon have inform Their US dealer that they cannot advertise their price directly on a canadian web site
Because of this all US dealer do not show price on Photoprice.ca
See message here
photoprice.ca: PhotoPrice.ca Silenced for Canon Products

photoprice.ca: PhotoPrice.ca Silenced for Canon Products
Cameras are becoming commodity priced items, especially APS-C DSLR's and m43. This is not what manufacturers want necessarily.

P&S cameras are losing to smartphone cameras, so this is about reducing distribution while maintaining prices points and margins.

In reality, these efforts cannot endure. Price determines most purchases. If manufacturers want less volume, they will get it, and likely less economy-of-scale and with that reduced revenues. They are betting that reduced sales numbers at higher prices will keep revenues steady. In the very short term, yes, but not in the long term.
04-04-2012, 05:32 AM   #349
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Globally the economy is near recovery but there is a much wider gulf between the comfortable, wealthy, and the just-getting-by than there was in the 90's. Looking at the D800 surprise, I suspect these companies are surrendering the high volume business to Apple (new iCam linked directly to iCloud coming) and moving upscale to a lower-volume, higher priced model, selling only to the wealthy and near-wealthy.

I believe in just a few years the market will look like it did in the 60's, when a Spotmatic and kit lens was around $459. That's close to $3000 today, just for a basic kit - definitely not a middle class hobby.

04-04-2012, 06:08 AM   #350
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There are brick and mortar shops left where the reps actually know what they're talking about?

QuoteOriginally posted by parsons Quote
They haven't raised the prices- they have just reinstated the origional prices. It's been said several times in this thread that the idea behind this is probababy as part of a move reinstate a place in brick and mortar shops that were previously being undercut and couldn't compete.
04-04-2012, 06:13 AM   #351
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I believe in just a few years the market will look like it did in the 60's, when a Spotmatic and kit lens was around $459. That's close to $3000 today, just for a basic kit - definitely not a middle class hobby.
Back then the Soviet and DDR cameras were sold very cheaply on international markets.
An entry-level Praktica SLR would be around $50.
04-04-2012, 06:20 AM   #352
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Back then the Soviet and DDR cameras were sold very cheaply on international markets.
An entry-level Praktica SLR would be around $50.
which is how I started with a Zenit
04-04-2012, 06:24 AM   #353
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
They are betting that reduced sales numbers at higher prices will keep revenues steady. In the very short term, yes, but not in the long term.
But higher prices (at reduced sales numbers) only translate to steady revenues for the manufacturer, if the new higher margins flow to the manufacturer, rather than the retailer.

Are you implying that Pentax will raise the prices at which they sell to retailers? If they don't they will just make box shifters richer but don't gain anything from the higher retail prices except a lot of anger from their user base.

BTW, I hope unilateral pricing works both ways, i.e., will also imply stopping some distributors / retailers ripping their customers off. If I wanted to buy a K-5 with an official Pentax warranty in New Zealand, I'd pay the equivalent of USD 1,681. That's a joke, but already better than the USD 1990, I would have paid not so long ago.

If Pentax succeeds in killing parallel importers and raises prices without also making sure that the shameless overpricing is also addressed, it will be used equipment for me only from now on. I recently bought a FA 77 Ltd new and love it, but I won't be paying silly prices that do not even support Pentax directly but just make box shifters and shameless distributors richer and richer.

04-04-2012, 06:29 AM   #354
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QuoteOriginally posted by krebsy97 Quote
There are brick and mortar shops left where the reps actually know what they're talking about?
There are a few, like Showcase Photo & Video, here in Atlanta. I pre-ordered an Oly OM-D E-M5 from them, and in light of this move by Pentax, am very glad I did so. I LOVE my K-5 and still own a K20D plus some quality glass, including the DA* 60-250mm and DA15mm, but my a$$ is really chapped about this move by Ricoh/Pentax.

Perhaps when the "smart minds" see the sale of most Pentax glass come to a screeching halt via ALL outlets, they'll rethink this (on the surface) very bone-headed move.
04-04-2012, 06:44 AM   #355
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
What do you mount on that brand spanking new D800 that won't get shipped to you until August?
I could start with all my fantastic Pentax 645 lenses.......and maybe add a Nikon 50 1.8 and an 85 1.8....both for a total price less than a single Pentax standard lens. Waiting until August beats waiting for a Pentax FF to arrive again.....on April 1st 2013, don't you think?

Regards!
04-04-2012, 06:59 AM   #356
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About the price.
They are now at the advice price, isn't that odd?
I think something went wrong somewhere or stores simply see this as a way to make easy money at the moment.
I can not believe the minimum price is the advice price.
04-04-2012, 07:11 AM   #357
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QuoteOriginally posted by parsons Quote
I bought my fa77 from b&h and the box says Hoya. The number is 25000 something. I doubt they will discontinue those. It would be suicide. As far as I can tell, the FA and less so DA ltds are almost the only unique selling point of the brand at the moment.
I agree, the unique primes and great compatibility (SR) with legacy glass.

QuoteOriginally posted by parsons Quote
They haven't raised the prices- they have just reinstated the origional prices. It's been said several times in this thread that the idea behind this is probababy as part of a move reinstate a place in brick and mortar shops that were previously being undercut and couldn't compete.
Original MSRP are seldom actual prices, though. Very few items in an open market are sold at MSRP. So yes, Pentax has raised prices.
04-04-2012, 07:30 AM - 1 Like   #358
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A few comments mentioned a good time to change systems. Have any of you looked at Canikon lens prices? You won't save any money there and will likely spend much, much more. They have their "consumer" lines which are average lenses at best. Their good glass is incredibly high.
04-04-2012, 07:31 AM   #359
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If this is possible, set aside the question of value (whether the 16-50mm is worth $1500, or a better deal than the Nikon 17-55mm at that price, etc.) Having worked on the manufacturing side, with some marketing, this has also to do with brand image... if your listed msrp is $1500 and the most respected retailers (say the NYC guys) are selling it for $800, that suggests to the customer that the product requires a discount in order to sell, is probably of a lower quality than the manufacturer's valuation, and it becomes a race to the bottom. It's a brand image issue, as well as concern for the maintenance of a brick and mortar dealer network, whose margins on a lot of these products are quite bad.
Over the course of several years in my previous work the pricing policy (items must be sold within 10% of msrp, and at that only on a temporary sale basis) resulted in a lot of short-term angst, but didn't significantly hurt volumes and did improve dealer loyalty to the brand. But that brand was the market leader (as Nikon and Canon) so it's is not apples to apples to the Pentax policy change.
And international sales plays a huge role in this. Would you want to be an Australian dealer, with a super strong Au dollar, trying to sell against American ebay retailers at a 50% price disadvantage? I'd ask myself "what's the point even trying?"
Now reintroducing the value question, whether customers will agree that Pentax is a premium brand on-par with the bigger guys, and whether a 16-50mm is worth $1500, is why this thread now has 24 pages.
04-04-2012, 07:40 AM   #360
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
But higher prices (at reduced sales numbers) only translate to steady revenues for the manufacturer, if the new higher margins flow to the manufacturer, rather than the retailer.

Are you implying that Pentax will raise the prices at which they sell to retailers? If they don't they will just make box shifters richer but don't gain anything from the higher retail prices except a lot of anger from their user base.

BTW, I hope unilateral pricing works both ways, i.e., will also imply stopping some distributors / retailers ripping their customers off. If I wanted to buy a K-5 with an official Pentax warranty in New Zealand, I'd pay the equivalent of USD 1,681. That's a joke, but already better than the USD 1990, I would have paid not so long ago.

If Pentax succeeds in killing parallel importers and raises prices without also making sure that the shameless overpricing is also addressed, it will be used equipment for me only from now on. I recently bought a FA 77 Ltd new and love it, but I won't be paying silly prices that do not even support Pentax directly but just make box shifters and shameless distributors richer and richer.
No, you won't pay silly prices, which is why silly prices will not last.

I cannot speak to NZ because remote markets with small volumes are always a problem. Trying buying breakfast cereal in Canada's far North!

Pentax may raise prices to retailers, but only in line with currency or production costs, which this unilateral may also be a catch-all for.

The biggest reason to do this is likely to stop bulk orders and inventory building up in the channel leading to low-margin sales. not so much a problem with camera bodies as there is 1-2 year turnover of new product as total replacement, but with lenses channel build-up is obviously difficult for Pentax to accurately gauge demand.

The challenges with unilateral pricing is how to respond to regional variance within a global marketplace of price-checking (thanks Amazon); with controlling prices through supply and inventory; and with accurately getting the price right all over from a single office in Japan (or via Ned in the US)!

If Pentax wants to sell its products, it will have to price them right for consumers. Personally, I don't think Pentax has enough market leverage to make much of a difference to many retailers. Canon's been trying to strongarm some retail and pricing suppliers, but I think that will backfire.

Fuji has an interesting system. They flood the market with models at multiple price points. They have more models than almost any other manufacturer save Canon. They have an aggressive new model system. And for regional variation, they alter the warranty. Low prices in the US get you a 1 year warranty. Higher elsewhere gets you a 2-3 year warranty. On the high-end models they limit supply. Fuji is just happy to get their brand on the shelf nearly everywhere at all price points. And as P&S sales decline, they have some high-end revenue in the wings.
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