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04-04-2012, 07:47 AM   #361
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
A few comments mentioned a good time to change systems. Have any of you looked at Canikon lens prices? You won't save any money there and will likely spend much, much more. They have their "consumer" lines which are average lenses at best. Their good glass is incredibly high.
It depends on what you are looking for... the Nikon kit lens and the 18-105 are equal to or better than their Pentax equivalents optically, the Nikon 55-300 is at least as good as the Pentax 55-300, and for a little more $$ the 70-300 is better. The Nikon 50/1.8 is $130, the Nikon 35/1.8 is $20 cheaper and faster than the Pentax 35/2.4. Of course not all the Nikon lenses I listed have VR, and some are bulkier than their Pentax competition.

And of course, all the Nikon AF lenses come with a 5 year warranty in the US.

04-04-2012, 07:54 AM   #362
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
A few comments mentioned a good time to change systems. Have any of you looked at Canikon lens prices? You won't save any money there and will likely spend much, much more. They have their "consumer" lines which are average lenses at best. Their good glass is incredibly high.
Yes, Nikon lens prices are quite high. The 24-70 f/2.8 is $1700 or so, so maybe 10% more than the 16-50. Of course the image quality with a D800 will blow the pentax away and there's a DOF penalty with the pentax as well. It's a pro lens, rather than just having pro pricing.

If you go with constant DOF, the 24-120 is half the price of the 16-50, has longer range, and with the D800's iso I suspect it will have less noise in low light. I also suspect it focuses better than the pentax and I don't think people worry about the lens motor failing.

The 70-200 is ~10% more than the Pentax 60-250. It's a faster lens, suspect it autofocuses much better, and again, has better IQ due to larger sensor.

Really the 10% isn't going to make or break me. I didn't come to Pentax for the autofocus, I came in spite of it; it wasn't that important to me, but it'd be nice. The major difference is the bodies.* Is the $1500 more for the FF Nikon (at introduction) worth it for me for the improved IQ and actual pro-quality? It wasn't when the lenses were so much cheaper, but now that my resale value for the lenses has just made them a great investment, it might be. Availability of third party lenses just makes this scenario sweeter.


*The limited lens series is also a big difference for me, but if I can get better IQ carrying one lens than carrying 3, the advantage diminishes.
04-04-2012, 08:07 AM   #363
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QuoteQuote:
A few comments mentioned a good time to change systems. Have any of you looked at Canikon lens prices? You won't save any money there and will likely spend much, much more. They have their "consumer" lines which are average lenses at best. Their good glass is incredibly high.
And now so is Pentax's. Plus, there are lens not available in the Pentax System. There are accessories not available in the Pentax System.

For many, the cost of switching has been out of reach or just not practical. With the recent increase in lens prices, it becomes more palatable. Especially when ones current glass can be sold for probably more than what they paid for it. So instead of taking a hit, one is simply starting from scratch, or with a small head start. There is a difference.

Consider the DA* 300. It went from 1124 to 1400 bucks. The Canon equivalent is 1449 and it will work on a FF camera, take a TC and Auto Extension tubes, neither of which Pentax offers.

And if I want to spend the money, I can get it in a 2.8 version as well.

So give me a good reason NOT to consider moving?

I was actually considering the DA* 300 with the 5 year extended waranty from B&H. A week or so ago, that would have made the lens 1450 or so. Today it makes it over 1700. It's not out of my price range, but it simply pisses me off that I have to shell out 300 bucks more for a lens that simply does less, and is less usable than the canon equivalent. In short, there is no benefit to buying the DA* 300 for what it cost now.
04-04-2012, 08:10 AM   #364
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QuoteOriginally posted by AGWoodard Quote
So give me a good reason NOT to consider moving?
Do you love the various Limiteds? Do you enjoy legacy glass? Because of availability and Pentax's in-body SR, if you answered yes to these questions, Pentax may be for you!

Otherwise, I can't think of a single reason to go Pentax.

04-04-2012, 08:15 AM   #365
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Maybe they are pulling out of US/Canadian market altogether. Other than the current users, which is a small group to begin with, not a whole lot of people will notice.
04-04-2012, 08:20 AM   #366
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Nah, didn't you know - they're Leica users.
Ned
04-04-2012, 08:22 AM   #367
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
  1. K-r replacement
  2. K5n - K5 with better-than-K-01 video, Prime M and articulating LCD
  3. K-3 - 24Mp sensor and entirely new body - (not the K-5 body)
K-01 / K-02 / Q are an entirely different line frm the dSLRs - MILC's, which just makes the production issue in limited space in Vietnam and the Phillipines even more complex.

XS lens line
  1. Q lenses
    1. Q > K adapter
  2. DA Lenses
    1. TC
  3. 645 lenses

Lenses are made in batches and held in inventory for shipping later by demand. They can be held for years (FA Limited, for instance). They are not made continuously like cars. Since much of the assembly is by hand of sub-assemblies, they have to retrain their workers each time they change batches. A lens is "discontinued" when held inventory runs out and there are no plans to make another batch. Retooling is for the elements and lens barrels and other parts, that may likely be sub-contracted to a supplier, who makes them in batches . . .

Pentax could be in a position where they would need to schedule production runs (order components, etc.) that they won't need / will discontinue under Ricoh. LaurenOE theorizes that Pentax needs to reduce demand until new products are introduced.

The US distribution channel is definitely in disarray and the US dollar is definitely weak versus the Yen. To the extent your currency is also weak, your lens prices could rise. To the extent your distribution channel is not in disarray the likelihood of a similar "bitter pill" is lower.
Thank you for your very informative reply. I do hope the initial shock wears off soon. Apparently not hearing much from Pentax-Ricoh is giving me shivers on what they're planning, with such a bold move like this.
04-04-2012, 08:29 AM   #368
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
A few comments mentioned a good time to change systems. Have any of you looked at Canikon lens prices? You won't save any money there and will likely spend much, much more. They have their "consumer" lines which are average lenses at best. Their good glass is incredibly high.
At least with the premium glass, there is substantially more than a 1 year warranty and a support network that don't take months to get gear back.

04-04-2012, 08:33 AM   #369
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And it's full-frame, with better resale value and reliable internal AF.

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
At least with the premium glass, there is substantially more than a 1 year warranty and a support network that don't take months to get gear back.
04-04-2012, 08:40 AM   #370
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Yes, Nikon lens prices are quite high. The 24-70 f/2.8 is $1700 or so, so maybe 10% more than the 16-50. Of course the image quality with a D800 will blow the pentax away and there's a DOF penalty with the pentax as well. It's a pro lens, rather than just having pro pricing.

If you go with constant DOF, the 24-120 is half the price of the 16-50, has longer range, and with the D800's iso I suspect it will have less noise in low light. I also suspect it focuses better than the pentax and I don't think people worry about the lens motor failing.

The 70-200 is ~10% more than the Pentax 60-250. It's a faster lens, suspect it autofocuses much better, and again, has better IQ due to larger sensor.

Really the 10% isn't going to make or break me. I didn't come to Pentax for the autofocus, I came in spite of it; it wasn't that important to me, but it'd be nice. The major difference is the bodies.* Is the $1500 more for the FF Nikon (at introduction) worth it for me for the improved IQ and actual pro-quality? It wasn't when the lenses were so much cheaper, but now that my resale value for the lenses has just made them a great investment, it might be. Availability of third party lenses just makes this scenario sweeter.


*The limited lens series is also a big difference for me, but if I can get better IQ carrying one lens than carrying 3, the advantage diminishes.
Not apples to apples
you are comparing the FXC line with a miodel pitted against the DX line

Nikon 17-55 2.8 DX is 1499 same price as 16-50 2.8. Now whether the DA* is as good a lens is another story..... I still think the 16-50 will end up settled closer to the Canon EF-S 17-55 2.8 which includes VR @ 1179
At the moment I think they are over reaching with th 16-50 which has a history of issues with the SDM and though good isn't up to the Nikon G for optics (if they have a replacement in the wings then that may well change)
04-04-2012, 08:40 AM   #371
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Maybe they're just trying to clean up their channel in the US; after all it is very hard for small bricks and mortar shops to compete with the online discounters. Do bear in mind though that for the last 3 years it's been cheaper for euro types like me to buy a return ticket to fly across the pond and buy a lens over there rather than to buy it in the UK, so something has been screwy for a while...

It's sure creating a lot of noise online though, FB and forums are full of it. Understandibly. I can only speculate that they're out to make some deliberate statement doing like is all of a sudden with a big announcement rather than slowly. As I said elsewhere the hikes do seem on the very steep side, I don't know of many other industries that actually sell at full MRRP, surely it's got to come down with time once the profitability implications of this price elasticity are down on paper in the annual sales accounts.

I may very well be wrong, but I'd be pretty surprised if it's too much to do with the manufacturing side. How much % of annual sales is North America?
04-04-2012, 08:44 AM   #372
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Maybe they are pulling out of US/Canadian market altogether. Other than the current users, which is a small group to begin with, not a whole lot of people will notice.
What would make you think they are pulling out here. the US is just getting the prices we've had for ages (ours actually have adjusted down to these prices in the last few years) Though thy don't have Canikon levels of exposure here they do have respectable representation at B&M. And our biggest online dealers all list them as well

I think the sticker shock is coming as a surprise to Americans but reality is we have been living with this for years. I'd say our dollar has increased but reality is part of it is more your dollar decreasing in value
Pentax still does reasonable business here, I think a broader line with better dealer support will just improve that.
04-04-2012, 09:14 AM   #373
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Price fixing leads to increased gray market activity.
04-04-2012, 09:28 AM   #374
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QuoteOriginally posted by civiletti Quote
Price fixing leads to increased gray market activity.
Not if they don't have a source to buy at the lower costs (The US market retail wise is falling in line with pretty much the rest of the world on this one). Pentax would be tracking what they ship to US dealers (or for that matter any dealer/distributor if they wanted to get serious) by serial number. tracking back who is the problem is as simple as buying one unit from the grey market and following it back to where it originates. 1st offense a warning, continual offense losing authorized dealer status
04-04-2012, 09:41 AM   #375
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Third offense: who cares since Pentax sales likely account for very little as compared to Canikon.

QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Not if they don't have a source to buy at the lower costs (The US market retail wise is falling in line with pretty much the rest of the world on this one). Pentax would be tracking what they ship to US dealers (or for that matter any dealer/distributor if they wanted to get serious) by serial number. tracking back who is the problem is as simple as buying one unit from the grey market and following it back to where it originates. 1st offense a warning, continual offense losing authorized dealer status
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