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04-04-2012, 09:46 AM   #376
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QuoteOriginally posted by reeftool Quote
A few comments mentioned a good time to change systems. Have any of you looked at Canikon lens prices? You won't save any money there and will likely spend much, much more. They have their "consumer" lines which are average lenses at best. Their good glass is incredibly high.
Actually, it depends on when you decide to change systems and what lenses you would choose. Once or twice a year, both Canon and Nikon have rebate incentives on their lenses when you purchase a new body. The rebates typically occur in the fall, but you can find huge savings. Some examples from Nikon last year:

$400 off Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II AF-S NIKKOR zoom lens.
$400 off Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8G ED AF-S NIKKOR wide-angle zoom lens.
$300 off Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8G ED AF-S NIKKOR wide-angle zoom lens.
$300 off Nikon 24-120mm f/4G ED VR AF-S NIKKOR lens.

I only listed lenses that I'd be interested in, but there were other lenses with rebates too. Yes, you have to buy a new body, but you'd do so anyway since you'd be switching systems right? And some would say comparing the FX lenses to Pentax is apples to oranges, but again, the DA 16-50mm is the APS-C equivalent to full frame 24-70mm and the DA 50-135mm to the FX 70-200mm. It's arguable which lenses would perform better, but I tend to see less complaints about Nikon's SWM versus Pentax's SDM.

04-04-2012, 09:48 AM   #377
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I emailed my brother about this situation, and he noted that television manufacturers are doing something similar, adopting a pricing policy that will "punish" the heavy discounters to protect the brick & mortars.

Perhaps this is simply another step in globalized markets.

04-04-2012, 09:51 AM   #378
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Not apples to apples
I see your point, but right now I'm looking at 'top of the line' pentax vs. 'top of the line' nikon. Nikon's more expensive, but only in bodies, really. Pay that once and you're in a *real* pro system.

Of course you could argue going to 645 but that means paying 7000 more for a new body and 3000 more for every lens.
04-04-2012, 10:13 AM   #379
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
EXACTLY!!
They can probably continue to suck our money since we addicted to lenses like smoker addicted to cigarette, but for new comer? sad.
Hmmm...people have been predicting that APS-C is dying and will be gone within a few years. Maybe this is Pentax's way of getting ahead of that?
I know Falk Lumo and Thom Hogan have been saying that for a while.

04-04-2012, 10:14 AM   #380
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QuoteOriginally posted by einstrigger Quote
Once or twice a year, both Canon and Nikon have rebate incentives on their lenses when you purchase a new body.
I suspect we'll see the same type of rebates from Pentax when they get around to launching their new round of products. These price increases in the U.S. are primarily to protect non-U.S. retailers. But in proceeding in this fashion they are putting their U.S. market at risk. Using rebates would probably be a more effective way of dealing with the problem of keeping prices low enough in America to meet demand while not undercutting non-U.S. retailers.
04-04-2012, 10:29 AM   #381
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@northcoastgreg.... good point, if they're falling in line with Nikon and Canon policies it wouldn't surprise if they did so w/ rebates as well. Maybe look for the next Pentax body release (high end anyway) with a rebate program.
04-04-2012, 10:31 AM   #382
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
I suspect we'll see the same type of rebates from Pentax when they get around to launching their new round of products. These price increases in the U.S. are primarily to protect non-U.S. retailers. But in proceeding in this fashion they are putting their U.S. market at risk. Using rebates would probably be a more effective way of dealing with the problem of keeping prices low enough in America to meet demand while not undercutting non-U.S. retailers.
Perhaps this is true and re: the US market, they would've served themselves much better by communicating the price increase ahead of time and ratcheting it up over time - say a month or two. Doing this would've, at the least:
  1. shown the US base some consideration & helped maintain goodwill
  2. helped spur short-term sales and clear out inventory
As it stands, they've only created a fair amount of confusion regarding future direction and pi$$ed off many of their strongest advocates.
04-04-2012, 10:38 AM   #383
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Here is the response from Henry in the B&H forum. I had asked for B&H's perspective on the pricing increase, and whether there is a benefit for consumers. Here is his reply:

"Pentax USA has instituted a unilateral pricing policy similar to what Sony's SURE program and Nikon USA's price policies set. Unilateral pricing dictates the minimum selling price a retailer can charge. This is more severe and more restrictive than MAP (min advertized price) programs. An MAP rule sets the lowest advertized price but the retailer is free to charge whatever selling price the retailer sees fit. A unilateral price policy sets the minimum selling price and retailers may not offer discounts from that base price unless specifically authorized to do so.

My experience with other suppliers is new rules like these are strictly enforced and the penalties for violating them are severe."

04-04-2012, 10:41 AM   #384
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That seems to explain my frustration today. I've been keeping an eye on a SMCP DA 35mm f/2.8 macro which doubles as a good all around prime lens. For a couple of months I've seen that, when I follow a Pentax Forums to B&H, there is a significant price difference between that offered via this forum and their regular price. About $550 vs $700. I don't like buying things until I can afford to so I've been saving my money and was going to order today. Today, via link or not, the price is $699.00 Pentax SMCP-DA 35mm f/2.8 Macro Limited Series Autofocus 21730

I can't afford it again. I won't buy it. And if I did, I would not buy it from the US but from a Canadian retailer where I will have no warranty hassles. (I've long had a problem with Pentax's Canadian pricing which tends to be significantly higher than US, though the exchange rates hover around par.) But buying the lens I want is going to be a year away or more. In the meantime I'll have to buy a cheaper, worse lens unless I want to back out of the room to take a shot wider shot with my kit zoom.
04-04-2012, 10:43 AM   #385
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Maybe Ricoh is genius? The price already seems to be settling downward....at Amazon the DA*16-50 has already dropped from $1499.95 to $1499. This savings of .99 cents didn't seem to draw me in for one, but I'm sure I am not the typical bargain hunter.
Regards!
04-04-2012, 10:44 AM   #386
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
I suspect we'll see the same type of rebates from Pentax when they get around to launching their new round of products. These price increases in the U.S. are primarily to protect non-U.S. retailers. But in proceeding in this fashion they are putting their U.S. market at risk. Using rebates would probably be a more effective way of dealing with the problem of keeping prices low enough in America to meet demand while not undercutting non-U.S. retailers.
In effect Pentax is saying:
  1. We beleive we will NET the same money
  2. We believe we will MANAGE our global distribution better
  3. We believe we are better off having lots of smaller customers thanmw ea re having a few huge customers
  4. We believe an astute consumer will buy when we sponsor a rebate sale, which we will do when WE want to do it
04-04-2012, 10:50 AM   #387
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QuoteQuote:
Do you love the various Limiteds? Do you enjoy legacy glass? Because of availability and Pentax's in-body SR, if you answered yes to these questions, Pentax may be for you!

Otherwise, I can't think of a single reason to go Pentax.
Ignoring the Limited debate, because there are other fine lenses that I believe compete quite nicely with them in IQ,

Let's talk abut In Body SR -

Most L glass or pro glass from the other two have built in IS or VR, at the SAME price Pentax is now charging while NOT having those features.

In Body SR was the big deal back when they came out with it because a lens would be cheaper because you didn't have to have an IS or VR system in each one. Remember? They stepped right in that one didn't they?



But you are right. At the current lens pricing policy, the lack of a full system of lenses, the lack of basic accessories, and no forward advancement to FF, there really isn't a good reason to stay with Pentax anymore.

I've been on the fence waiting for both a long lens and a FF body for a while now. Neither have come to fruition, and the new 560 - well, it doesn't seem to be a serious contender, though time will tell. But my guess is, it won't have any better IQ than a Bigma. And at a premium price now.

I'll probably wait for a used D700, or 5DMkII and then make the jump. It's really not personal or emotional, there just isn't any compelling reason to stay a Pentaxian anymore.

If this was the much touted "Plan" Pentax had for me, all I can do is thank them for giving me the nudge.
04-04-2012, 11:00 AM   #388
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Guys.... what's the all fuzz about?
I don't see any changes in Europe and Russia.... everything is the same....
DA 15 135
Pentax AF 50-135 f/2.8 ED IF DA SDM teleobiektyw zoom - Obiektywy - Pentax AF 50-135 f/2.8 ED IF DA SDM teleobiektyw zoom cena od 3897.00z was around 2k USD.... and still stays around 2k
Pentax SMC DA 50-135mm f/2.8 ED (IF) SDM ? ????????? ? ??????.?????? - the same. Around 2k USD

So this is as I have already said. They simply make the "average world price". not a big deal....
04-04-2012, 11:00 AM   #389
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QuoteOriginally posted by AGWoodard Quote
I'll probably wait for a used D700, or 5DMkII and then make the jump. It's really not personal or emotional, there just isn't any compelling reason to stay a Pentaxian anymore.
I agree with this sentiment. The real shame for me will be saying good bye to the tiny and wonderful Limiteds. Well, I can't afford to switch systems right now, so for better or worse I'll be around for a while to see where Pentax is taking this.
04-04-2012, 11:07 AM - 1 Like   #390
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belcik Quote
Guys.... what's the all fuzz about?
I don't see any changes in Europe and Russia.... everything is the same....
DA 15 135
Pentax AF 50-135 f/2.8 ED IF DA SDM teleobiektyw zoom - Obiektywy - Pentax AF 50-135 f/2.8 ED IF DA SDM teleobiektyw zoom cena od 3897.00z was around 2k USD.... and still stays around 2k
Pentax SMC DA 50-135mm f/2.8 ED (IF) SDM ? ????????? ? ??????.?????? - the same. Around 2k USD

So this is as I have already said. They simply make the "average world price". not a big deal....
It is a big deal. This argument that these price increases put the US in line with the rest of the world don't really matter. Yes, you've been paying more all along. That sucks. But that doesn't change the fact that many American Pentax customers chose this brand because the comparatively low prices relative to CaNikon made swallowing the bitter pill of its shortcomings easier. You take away that sweetness and the bitterness is all that's left.

I don't know about you, but I'm not in the habit of looking for the most expensive place to buy something I'm interested in. And neither is anybody else. Sure, I suppose you could import your milk from Australia; does that mean your neighbors should quit their moaning when milk prices double at home in Minnesota? At some point, maybe it's time to consider orange juice.
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