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04-04-2012, 12:13 PM   #406
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Cameras are small and portable by design. So direct marketing and consumer purchasing online is soon to be the norm.

This is not about protecting B&M retailers. This is about controlling Amazon.com inventory over-purchases and permanent sales philosophies.
Some very interesting comments in this thread, and I was just pondering why some accompanying statement explaining the rationale behind the unilateral pricing move was not put forth.

The quoted comment might explain why no statement.

This said, I just don't see how Pentax (and certainly the American base) wins by making this move. Does it cause Amazon to blink an eye? Nope. Does it cause B&H and similar B&M'net retailers to grimace? Perhaps a bit, but in the end, I don't think they'll care much either. Honestly, at this point at least, I think this is simply one of those cases where the baby (in this case, the American-based Pentax aficionado) is being tossed out with the bath water. *Sigh*

04-04-2012, 12:25 PM   #407
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I hope Falk reads this. He cites the 300 Apple Stores as an example. He seems to think Pentax could have 1 Salesman call on the 300 best camera stores in the USA once a year and solve this problem.
The Apple stores actually pay their genius associates very well (much better than most computer retailers - when they started opening up here all the apple experts we had at Future shop left for them). Their model is very efficient.Sony does a similar thing with the Sony stores but the product is so diverse that they struggle with having staff who are experts in all areas. Where Apple nails it is they have a very tight lid on the dealer network (they always have)
I think the Apple has actually nailed the mass market for computer tech very well. Aside from the kids they have a lot of older clientele who aren't tech savvy and the support levels are good. I'd say 75% of my friends who are in the art's side of things are apple users. 10% are luddites without a computer at all, the remaining 15% use either windows or Ubuntu. I use Window primarily because I used to need it for work way back and you can build a comparable system cheaper, but if it was my wife buying we would use apple (right now I'm her tech support )
Apple also has very good marketing something Pentax really needs. My wife is buying a new iPad this month. when i ask her what she is going to use it for she has no idea she is just sold on the idea and wants the one with all the apps LMAO. her money she can do as she wishes (I'll end up using it more within a year)

Last edited by eddie1960; 04-04-2012 at 12:31 PM.
04-04-2012, 12:31 PM   #408
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QuoteOriginally posted by AlphaGAK20D Quote
There are a few, like Showcase Photo & Video, here in Atlanta. I pre-ordered an Oly OM-D E-M5 from them, and in light of this move by Pentax, am very glad I did so. I LOVE my K-5 and still own a K20D plus some quality glass, including the DA* 60-250mm and DA15mm, but my a$$ is really chapped about this move by Ricoh/Pentax.

Perhaps when the "smart minds" see the sale of most Pentax glass come to a screeching halt via ALL outlets, they'll rethink this (on the surface) very bone-headed move.
Showcase Photo & Video doesn't handle Pentax, do they?
04-04-2012, 12:48 PM   #409
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Not if they don't have a source to buy at the lower costs (The US market retail wise is falling in line with pretty much the rest of the world on this one). Pentax would be tracking what they ship to US dealers (or for that matter any dealer/distributor if they wanted to get serious) by serial number. tracking back who is the problem is as simple as buying one unit from the grey market and following it back to where it originates. 1st offense a warning, continual offense losing authorized dealer status
You know I hear this all the time and it's always in theory. Look at high-end watches, my other hobby. There is a thriving grey market for all the "tight" AD networked watches. Want a Rolex - fine, you can get one from an AD or you can pay a LOT less from a Grey market seller. Rolex is the MOST rigid and abusive among the watch makers in how they handle after-sale interactions with the owners (some would say renters because of how Rolex looks at the watch as theirs in perpetuity in many ways) and yet there are tons of Rolex watches in the Grey market (also fakes but that is another story). I've even bought a "tight" AD watch "out the back door" from a real AD with a real warranty stamp for FAR less than the MINIMUM price set by the manufacturer (and no, it's not a Rolex, I would not own one as evidenced by my selling the one I was gifted). The ADs have to sell a minimum # of watches to stay an AD and/or to keep their preferred AD status but at the crazy prices mandated by the maker can not possibly sell that many - so, they sell them out the back door without advertising and you have to know someone to be introduced to the owner to get that price. AD systems suck, period, for the consumer in my experience.


Last edited by Docrwm; 04-04-2012 at 01:00 PM.
04-04-2012, 12:49 PM   #410
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Showcase Photo & Video doesn't handle Pentax, do they?
No, they don't, but when I first made the decision to buy Pentax (K20D), Showcase was the first place I asked. Ironically, I bought the K20D at Wolf Camera. My K5 was purchased via B&H, as were the bulk of my lenses, my Elinchrom lights, and a number of other accessories. I ordered the Oly through Showcase via one of the guys with whom I regularly shoot. He's a Nikon shooter and added 4/3's to his lineup last year via the E-P3 Pen; he's friends with the Oly rep and used to teach at Showcase (until going on his own). When he pre-ordered the E-M5 a few of us joined him and did the same.

Back to your original question, I wish Showcase did carry Pentax. They are very active in the local photography community and I do enjoy supporting local businesses. At the same time, I really appreciate the partnership that B&H has forged with Pentax Forums and will continue to actively buy from them as a result.
04-04-2012, 12:49 PM   #411
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Cameras are small and portable by design. So direct marketing and consumer purchasing online is soon to be the norm.
There is no doubt about that....but, still there is nothing that makes up for actually holding something in your hands and examining it to see if it will work for you...

A case in point: Several years back, (OK it's been a couple of decades) I was very interested in pairing down my OM system of four bodies/winders and a dozen lenses into a Leica R system....I went to the local Leica dealer, put the R-4 into my hands...and hated it's feel...my XL hands were clumsy on the camera...it was so strange to me after my years with Pentaxes and Olympuses that I decided to stay with my OM gear as an OM body with a winder or motor drive fit just right, and weren't too clumsy without the drive...

Kind of like my K-5...if I didn't have the knock-off battery grip I'd have two fingers of my hand uncomfortably positioned under the camera body and not like it at all! With grip = nice!

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
This is not about protecting B&M retailers. This is about controlling Amazon.com inventory over-purchases and permanent sales philosophies.
Well, it is still about controlling prices in the distribution channel...no mention is being made of differences in the wholesale pricing....I bet there that quantity purchases will still get better discounts than individual purchases...if not then there is no incentive to purchase large quantities, which drivies up the number of units manufactured, which keeps more cash flow to the manufacturers, which helps keep more people employed...so, there really doesn't appear to me that there should be any downsides to making a bit of a discount for large quantity purchasers...

The other side of that is that there may be more profit for B&M's to have quality staff, or like the local CanNikSon store here, have enough profit in the units to actually make it worthwhile to spend the time with a customer and educate them about the Pentax line....

As always, YMMV and Money Talks/BS walks.....

But, let's just all hope that Ricoh does not try and do direct marketing of the Pentax SLR line...that has been the death knell of more than one audio manufacturer I know of....

.
04-04-2012, 12:58 PM   #412
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QuoteOriginally posted by AlphaGAK20D Quote
No, they don't, but when I first made the decision to buy Pentax (K20D), Showcase was the first place I asked. Ironically, I bought the K20D at Wolf Camera. My K5 was purchased via B&H, as were the bulk of my lenses, my Elinchrom lights, and a number of other accessories. I ordered the Oly through Showcase via one of the guys with whom I regularly shoot. He's a Nikon shooter and added 4/3's to his lineup last year via the E-P3 Pen; he's friends with the Oly rep and used to teach at Showcase (until going on his own). When he pre-ordered the E-M5 a few of us joined him and did the same.

Back to your original question, I wish Showcase did carry Pentax. They are very active in the local photography community and I do enjoy supporting local businesses. At the same time, I really appreciate the partnership that B&H has forged with Pentax Forums and will continue to actively buy from them as a result.

Thanks. I've not stopped in there as I had not heard much good about the place until your post. Add to that the fact that they do not handle Pentax and it just wasn't worth the drive.
04-04-2012, 01:22 PM   #413
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We talk all the time about global brand franchises and brand moats and barriers to entry. Nikon has a brand moat. Canon is not impenetrable but they have fragmented the market. Fuji, Sony, Sigma, Olympus and Pentax can fight amongst themselves for the remaining 15% of the market - or Pentax can attempt to moat up its franchise (Pentax is a recognized brand outside the US). Pricing control is part of the moat.

Ricoh didn't decimate Canon in the office copier market by being all nice and pink kitty - they were ruthless with their dealers. Read. Study. Learn. Plan.

04-04-2012, 01:42 PM   #414
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
We talk all the time about global brand franchises and brand moats and barriers to entry. Nikon has a brand moat. Canon is not impenetrable but they have fragmented the market. Fuji, Sony, Sigma, Olympus and Pentax can fight amongst themselves for the remaining 15% of the market - or Pentax can attempt to moat up its franchise (Pentax is a recognized brand outside the US). Pricing control is part of the moat.

Ricoh didn't decimate Canon in the office copier market by being all nice and pink kitty - they were ruthless with their dealers. Read. Study. Learn. Plan.
I don't think Ricoh decimated Canon... marketshare has been fairly fragmented as Xerox's demise accelerated thru the 80's & 90's and now's there's at least a half dozen big players. Plus, Canon has it's irons in a lot of fires, and the office copier market has a near-expiration data attached to it.

Off topic, but I think HP could be in a really good position as we continue the transition the long-sought "paperless office", if they could but get their act together.
04-04-2012, 03:26 PM   #415
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photokina better be good
04-04-2012, 03:31 PM   #416
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Okay - let me think about this.

I was planning to purchase a Pentax 60-250 DA* lens early this summer. This lens went up by $704.00. So this is not going to happen.

Two comments I need to add:

1) Our European friends are saying that the U.S. prices now reflect what they have to pay. Maybe. But in the case of this lens, it's actually $385 cheaper now in Europe (Amazon.de) at current exchange rates (April 4th, 2012).

2) Comparable lenses from both Nikon and Canon are now cheaper than this lens. In some cases much cheaper (in the case of Canon I'm talking "L" series lenses, not the pseudo kit lenses). I admit it's difficult to be completely fair here since on one else makes a lens with the same specifications.

I also note that in the case of both Canon and Nikon, image stabilization has to be built in to the lens, which (theoretically) should make them MORE expensive, not less expensive.


So what am I going to do? Probably buy a similar Canon or Nikon lens and use the money I save towards a Canon/Nikon body. Then slowly start shedding my Pentax gear.

Seems a shame. I like Pentax, but feel betrayed. This is no way to treat their customers.
04-04-2012, 03:45 PM   #417
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It seem like this pricing issue cause a lot of anger all over the world....

Really.... with what I already have, I probably can withstand not buying anymore Pentax lenses (still want my 15, 40, 70) for quite some time. But for newcomer who was lured into Pentax because of it "value" or "bang for bucks" .... I really pity them. The threshold to get into those wonderful glasses now seem really high (Hoya did it once, and now Ricoh).

A rather sad day for Pentaxian.
04-04-2012, 03:50 PM   #418
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QuoteQuote:
Ricoh didn't decimate Canon in the office copier market by being all nice and pink kitty - they were ruthless with their dealers. Read. Study. Learn. Plan.
The Key Word is DEALERS

In this instance, they are being ruthless with their customers.

There's a difference.
04-04-2012, 03:58 PM   #419
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
Something strange is happening in the camera industry. Canon have inform Their US dealer that they cannot advertise their price directly on a canadian web site
Because of this all US dealer do not show price on Photoprice.ca
See message here
photoprice.ca: PhotoPrice.ca Silenced for Canon Products

photoprice.ca: PhotoPrice.ca Silenced for Canon Products
Thank you for this.
I've recently noticed that major e-comparison sites (e.g., Nextag) no longer default to what you type (.com), and instead bring you to the .ca site.
Of course Amazon is even better - try to ship from the US to a Canadian address - not going to happen. Especially rich since the same products aren't available from Amazon Canada.
04-04-2012, 04:05 PM   #420
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QuoteOriginally posted by AGWoodard Quote
The Key Word is DEALERS

In this instance, they are being ruthless with their customers.

There's a difference.
It isn't any different at all. We've had a great deal for several years. It ended. Something different will come next. It might be better - we don't know yet.
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