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04-04-2012, 04:06 PM   #421
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QuoteOriginally posted by traddles Quote
1) Our European friends are saying that the U.S. prices now reflect what they have to pay. Maybe. But in the case of this lens, it's actually $385 cheaper now in Europe (Amazon.de) at current exchange rates (April 4th, 2012).
Don't forget the VAT. We're taxed heavier on our income, they're taxed heavier on their products and generally VAT is included in price as advertised.

So the equivalent American price would be 19% cheaper. It'd be something like $1300 without the tax (assuming everything I said above is true, but I'm no expert). That $1300 is roughly equivalent to the pre-raised-price of that lens.

04-04-2012, 04:07 PM   #422
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QuoteOriginally posted by parsons Quote
photokina better be good
Full frame cameras for free with the purchase of the new 24-70 f/2.8.
04-04-2012, 04:15 PM   #423
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Sony's SURE policy sounds very familiar to what Pentax has instituted. This is a must read for followers of this thread: Sony Adds New Premium-Goods Sales Policy - 2008-05-05 06:00:00 | TWICE
04-04-2012, 04:25 PM   #424
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Another interesting read of Sony's SURE program: For Sony, No Discounts Means Stress-Free Shopping - NYTimes.com

In my opinion, it is much too soon for Pentax to consider this. They should have focused on improving the product line first. It just seems like a backwards approach to doing business. Photo enthusiasts are not going to pay a premium for Pentax products. It's just not going to happen with the options available from Canon and Nikon.

Pentax is in desperate need of SIGNIFICANT product home runs and marketing excellence. The next 6-12 months should prove interesting.

04-04-2012, 04:38 PM   #425
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QuoteQuote:
It isn't any different at all. We've had a great deal for several years. It ended. Something different will come next. It might be better - we don't know yet.
So it doesn't matter who you rape, dealers or customers, as long as someone gets raped, all is OK because they have a plan for you?

The technical term is BOHICA. Bend Over, Here It Comes Again.

Let me explain how this works in my world, crazy as it may be.

I dropped and broke a 3 stop ND filter last week, so I needed a new one. When I checked, there was a Hoya Pro1 for 48 bucks, and a B&W for 109.

After what Hoya did to Pentax, I swore I would never buy another Hoya product again if I could help it.

The B&W filter arrived today. Pentax can make all the "plans" they want, but they best never forget that consumers vote with their wallets, plans or no plans.
04-04-2012, 04:53 PM   #426
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Damn, I've been drooling over the 35mm f2.4 for a while. At $170 it was a steal. At $220, it's probably still worth it, but I'm no longer lusting after it now, and will probably end up not buying it.

Charles.
04-04-2012, 05:30 PM   #427
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That D800 is starting to look like a viable option, along with some Nikkor lenses.
DA* 16-50 for $ 700 or so, an ok lens for ok cost. At 1499,00 forget it, it is not worth it, neither is the 60-250 worth $ 2K. There is better stuff out there under a different brand name for similar money.
Just have to wait for the dust to settle I guess..
04-04-2012, 05:33 PM   #428
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
It's my gut feeling that the DA* zooms will be phased out because of their bad SDM rep. Hence their enormous price hike to keep some stock while the replacements are being manufactured...
i do think there could be some weight to that.
though they could just re-release them as SDM-II lenses and have the SDM problems fixed?

04-04-2012, 05:37 PM   #429
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QuoteOriginally posted by AGWoodard Quote
So it doesn't matter who you rape, dealers or customers, as long as someone gets raped, all is OK because they have a plan for you?

The technical term is BOHICA. Bend Over, Here It Comes Again.

Let me explain how this works in my world, crazy as it may be.

I dropped and broke a 3 stop ND filter last week, so I needed a new one. When I checked, there was a Hoya Pro1 for 48 bucks, and a B&W for 109.

After what Hoya did to Pentax, I swore I would never buy another Hoya product again if I could help it.

The B&W filter arrived today. Pentax can make all the "plans" they want, but they best never forget that consumers vote with their wallets, plans or no plans.
Oh grow up.
04-04-2012, 06:29 PM   #430
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The could see Pentax raising their lens prices to equivalent to C&N, if their QC and warranties also went up in lockstep, but I doubt it.

I was interested in getting either the Tamron 70-200/2.8 or the 50-135* this summer, but not now, as I'm not sure if Pentax might not end up pricing me out with new bodies as well - I'd like a K5, but would rather buy something priced in the range of the D5100 or T2i to replace my K20D (the K-r and K-01 are not it for me). I could still get the Tamron, but not sure if it would be wise to continue to invest in the system; the only real K mount lens I have is my Sigma 10-20.

I sure hope Ricoh knows what they're doing.

BTW, I was one of those people that got into Pentax, because bodies like K100D, that offered SR and the chance to use great glass at good prices, like the 50/1.4 or 35/2.0, but seems like such a long time ago.
04-04-2012, 06:32 PM - 5 Likes   #431
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QuoteOriginally posted by AGWoodard Quote
So it doesn't matter who you rape, dealers or customers, as long as someone gets raped, all is OK because they have a plan for you? The technical term is BOHICA. Bend Over, Here It Comes Again.
I think you are seriously misunderstanding the whole conversation. Pentax has not raised prices. They have required authorized dealers to stick to MSRP or some percentage of it (we do not know the exact terms). Pentax is attempting to police their sales channel just as many other manufacturers do. Any additional margin will go to the dealers not Pentax.

Without getting into the B&M versus online argument there is a good reason to make sure dealers make money on your product: if they do not make money they don't care about you or your products and neither do their sales staff.

How did we get here? The same way a lot of industries did, including gas stations back in the day when stations competed for your business. Your competitor offers a product cheaper than you do, so you either lower your price to match or go below him to get the sales. The week after your competitor drops his price again and then you do the same, round and round we go. If no one is policing the children it ends up with your product being sold at essentially no margin, and guess what, the dealers stop stocking it and stop pushing it because they are not making money. Even though they caused the issue themselves.

In this case we have B&H, Amazon, Adorama, Abe's and maybe a few others all trying to keep their volume up by discounting to make the sale. Add in the higher stocking and minimum order requirements instigated by Hoya and you can see they all have motivation to keep the volume moving or they lose either their AD status or some amount of discount. What has been needed is someone to step in and say stop. Here are the rules, everybody follows them and everybody makes money. I cannot imagine any of the dealers being too upset about being able to actually make money on Pentax. But they were never going to let a competitor undercut them.

Is this fair to consumers? No, not at all and carried to extreme it is probably illegal in the US. But the system being used was not fair either, and carried to extreme would have ended up with no dealers stocking Pentax because there was no money in it. Ricoh, recognized the retail channel was in a death spiral and moved to fix it. Will we be stuck at MSRP? No, no way. Once the gray channel has flushed out and Pentax has the dealers back toeing the line prices will be allowed to float gradually to the level that creates the most sales / margin.

Will we see last week's prices again? Probably not. I think we were seeing things being sold at essentially zero margin or at least a margin so low it was unsustainable.

Am I happy about it? Nope, I was one more paycheck from the DA 40mm. At $359 it was an incredible bargain. At $500, I have a perfectly serviceable F 50mm 1.7 that will do the job good enough for me. Will I ever get the DA 40? Who knows but not anytime soon. But I am not going to go around downing Pentax / Ricoh for being good business people, recognizing an issue and moving to fix it. Ricoh has committed millions of dollars to this project and if they are as good as I think they are they realize it takes a lot more than a top notch product to succeed. You also need good marketing, solid service and a committed dealer network that values your product because it makes them money.
04-04-2012, 06:58 PM   #432
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QuoteOriginally posted by einstrigger Quote
the DA 16-50mm is the APS-C equivalent to full frame 24-70mm and the DA 50-135mm to the FX 70-200mm.
For the record, they are not.

The equivalent lenses would be 24-70/4 and 70-200/4. E.g., the 70-200/4 exists for Canon L and is excellent but affordable. As more people upgrade from APSC, there is an increasing demand for the F/4 zooms now. E.g., there will be a 3rd party one now. The 24-120/4 should be included in a comparison for the same reason.

FYI, the price of the highly regarded, Photozone Highly Recommended 4 star lens Canon 70-200/4L which is the real equivalent for the DA*50-135/2.8 at B&H is ... $679! (the Pentax equivalent at B&H is $1,600 -- which is ok because there is a reason why equivalent APSC glass is more expensive; look at the equivalent Zuiko 35-100/2 prices ($2500 at B&H) and the difference is even more extreme; who said smaller sensor systems would be cheaper than FF? Not me ...)

Last edited by falconeye; 04-04-2012 at 07:16 PM.
04-04-2012, 07:22 PM   #433
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
...
The equivalent lenses would be 24-70/4 and 70-200/4. E.g., the 70-200/4 exists for Canon L and is excellent but affordable. As more people upgrade from APSC, there is an increasing demand for the F/4 zooms now. E.g., there will be a 3rd party one now. The 24-120/4 should be included in a comparison for the same reason.

FYI, the price of the highly regarded, Photozone Highly Recommended 4 star lens Canon 70-200/4L which is the real equivalent for the DA*50-135/2.8 at B&H is ... $679!
I've always pined for a set of quality/affordable f4 zooms in Nikon mount...


.
04-04-2012, 07:34 PM   #434
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Unreal...

I shipped my new k5 back today. The price premium for the glass isn't worth it. I was leaving Sony, but this change would add $780 to my plans. I expect every new pentax owner that got lured in by the k5 rebate is in the same boat. Sony fixes their prices, but their MSRPs aren't *#$@ing insane. The d800 is my new target.
04-04-2012, 07:39 PM   #435
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I've always pined for a set of quality/affordable f4 zooms in Nikon mount...


.
For about what the Pentax lens cost today, you can get great 2.8 glass for FF from Nikon.
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