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03-29-2012, 08:42 PM   #31
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Can someone provide more details (official info) on what exactly will be Pentax pricing policy.

Can someone explain to me how is this policy effective in technical terms?

03-29-2012, 08:49 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by vanyagor Quote
Can someone provide more details (official info) on what exactly will be Pentax pricing policy.

Can someone explain to me how is this policy effective in technical terms?
Not yet, I don't think.
03-29-2012, 08:52 PM   #33
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I think, knowing nothing about this or any other law, that the issue arises when there is no agreement between the manufacturer and the dealer. RPM agreements may be illegal in NY and California (I'll take your word for that) but manufacturers may still be able to choose with whom to do business sans RPM agreements. Too late tonight for me to track down that line.

For the curious, please see Monsanto vs. Spray-rite. You might try: http://www.oup.com/us/pdf/kwoka/0195120159_15.pdf
03-29-2012, 09:08 PM   #34
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If Nikon and Canon price their products this way there is most certainly a tested, legal process to do this. The question will be whether PentaxUSA executes their pricing strategy within the confines of the tested, legal pricing mechanism. The benefit of such a pricing mechanism must always accrue to the participant retailers, else retailers would respond by refusing to stock Pentax products.

To me this signals a significant competitive decision by Ricoh and is just one more indicator that Ricoh plans to compete aggressively for a more significant share of the digital photography market. This sets the stage for rebuilding the Bricks and Mortar distribution strategy, along with local workshops, representation, dealer sales reps, hands-on availability of demonstrator bodies and lenses - virtually everything we have asked for on this Forum since I joined in 2007.

We should be jumping for joy that Ricoh bought Pentax.

03-29-2012, 09:43 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
So now all stores will do it like Amazon - have a high price listed, but actually sell it below that, once you click on the cart (or ask the cashier if he can give a discount)?
B&H said that they will stop using the click on the cart feature if I'm interpreting their release correctly.
03-29-2012, 09:59 PM   #36
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Unilateral Pricing is intentionally designed to discourage that kind of pricing exploitation.

I absolutely loathe seeing an item without a price attached. Put it in the cart my RRA. Tell me what it costs so I can click or move on.

It's like trying to buy a car. JUST TELL ME WTF IT COSTS. NO MORE ADD-ONS. HERE'S MY CHECK - JUST GIVE ME THE EFFING PAPERS AND LET ME OUT OF HERE. !!! By the time you have the car you hated the whole experience so much you don't even like it any more. I hope my Subaru goes another 10 years.

Frankly I prefer the relative certainty of a $1,099 K-5 to the fear that if I pull the trigger February 23rd at $1,299 there will be some $300 rebate deal within a month. That's how I ended up with a K-01 - not that I don't like the K-01 - but it was $749 vs. $1,299. Oops. Damn.
03-29-2012, 10:12 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aegon Quote
It means that local dealers (brick and mortar) will be willing to sell Pentax again.

Why would Ritz/Wolf/Shutterbug even bother trying to sell a K-5 at $1300 when you can find it on the internet for $1000? (these prices are examples, what matters is that one is higher and the other significantly lower).

If it cost the same $1300 at Amazon and Ritz, then a buyer would be more likely to stop by the mall to buy from Ritz today. Therefore, Ritz is willing to keep inventory.
Ritz is being run into the ground; perhaps moreso than other retailers such as BestBuy and even Radio Shack. Chances are Ritz will be only a skeleton of what it is (even) now just two years from now
03-29-2012, 10:30 PM   #38
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Best Buy just announce 50 store closings today. Ritz was ruined by Camping World. Then 2008/09 freaked consumers out and cash flow dropped off the table - debt service was impossible - a classic asset-rich cash flow poor situation. Unfortunately at the time Nikon, Canon and Fuji, the principal unsecured ($61MM combined) "bankers" to Ritz were not accommodating, so Nikon owns 50% of David Ritz's investor group. Now if the company that you just bought fleeced you last month for $26MM, are you going to run it for long-term growth or are you going to strip every dollar of cash you can get and leave a smoking husk three years later?

And to Aegon, who says the local B&M store has to sell for $1,300 and B&H gets to sell for $1,000? The whole point of Unilateral Pricing is to prevent that very disparity and support the local dealer channel. Everyone sells the K-5 at $1,099 now. If you want to feel sorry for a dealer shed your tears for Amazon. Now I can go into CCCamera again and hold a Pentax without felling guilty about knowing I'm going to buy the camera on my iPhone in the parking lot before I start my car.

03-30-2012, 02:37 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
this is looking like its shaping up to be a political discussion.
You're right and all I wanted to say was that the impact of such pricing strategies depend on politics.
03-30-2012, 04:37 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Best Buy just announce 50 store closings today. Ritz was ruined by Camping World. Then 2008/09 freaked consumers out and cash flow dropped off the table - debt service was impossible - a classic asset-rich cash flow poor situation. Unfortunately at the time Nikon, Canon and Fuji, the principal unsecured ($61MM combined) "bankers" to Ritz were not accommodating, so Nikon owns 50% of David Ritz's investor group. Now if the company that you just bought fleeced you last month for $26MM, are you going to run it for long-term growth or are you going to strip every dollar of cash you can get and leave a smoking husk three years later?

And to Aegon, who says the local B&M store has to sell for $1,300 and B&H gets to sell for $1,000? The whole point of Unilateral Pricing is to prevent that very disparity and support the local dealer channel. Everyone sells the K-5 at $1,099 now. If you want to feel sorry for a dealer shed your tears for Amazon. Now I can go into CCCamera again and hold a Pentax without felling guilty about knowing I'm going to buy the camera on my iPhone in the parking lot before I start my car.
This may well allow you to avoid feeling guilty for using the locals without giving them your actual trade but for those of us without local stores all this does is raise the final cost of our equipment. If Canon and Nikon already do their business this way having Pentax copy them is exceedingly unlikely to result in new B&M stores opening.
03-30-2012, 04:47 AM   #41
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If it's like the Sony and Nikon policy it will be minimum advertised price not minimum sell price. It will maintain margins at a level that will allow Brick and mortoar guys to compete and provide service to you. Currently you may not have a local dealer but I also got the impression from CES that PRIC was working on developing their dealer network. Having a policy like this in place makes a brand more appealing to dealers because they know they aren't up against rogue online ads that sell too low for them to compete I would view it as a good thing given the number of people i see complaining about a lack of local shops. there is a reason for that lack and this helps address it (just as Sony and Nikon have)
AFAIK you cannot specifically set a sell price for a dealer but you can control advertised prices
03-30-2012, 04:53 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
This may well allow you to avoid feeling guilty for using the locals without giving them your actual trade but for those of us without local stores all this does is raise the final cost of our equipment. If Canon and Nikon already do their business this way having Pentax copy them is exceedingly unlikely to result in new B&M stores opening.
None of us knows that yet - but if it does, please understand - you can't have low prices and all the things we ask Pentax to do on these pages. You can't have both. One or the other.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-30-2012 at 06:46 AM.
03-30-2012, 05:03 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Best Buy just announce 50 store closings today. Ritz was ruined by Camping World. Then 2008/09 freaked consumers out and cash flow dropped off the table - debt service was impossible - a classic asset-rich cash flow poor situation. Unfortunately at the time Nikon, Canon and Fuji, the principal unsecured ($61MM combined) "bankers" to Ritz were not accommodating, so Nikon owns 50% of David Ritz's investor group

I could not write a book that good; the way that companies such as Ritz, Radio Shack, and Best Buy are (actually more like are not) doing business properly.

As somewhat of an insider... Will never forget how many interesting contracts were signed by or with Ritz that really leveled the company. Case in point; how they made long term investments in their photo labs and how much that Ritz still invests in it's generic relabeling and the so called Quantaray label
03-30-2012, 05:41 AM   #44
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There really is no good long-term reason to lever anything more than 35% - in fact there are good long-term reasons to insist on nothing less - and no responsible reason to mortgage future cash flow against non-revenue assets. Growth comes from free-cash-flow plow-back.
03-30-2012, 06:42 AM - 1 Like   #45
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Interesting in Canada , we ha alot of B&M store who carry Pentax. The small and medium shop are have better price when there no promotional by supplier than the big guy like Henry and Lozeau.
Some example with Nikon Pentax and Canon
Difference from lowest to highest price of Canadian Dealer$CDN , average price and B&H $USD

Nikon D7000 $100 average $1099, $1180
Canon 60D $120, average $929, B&H cannot advertise price in Canada
Pentax K-5 $160 average $999, B&H $989
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