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04-04-2012, 07:56 PM   #436
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
But I am not going to go around downing Pentax / Ricoh for being good business people, recognizing an issue and moving to fix it. Ricoh has committed millions of dollars to this project and if they are as good as I think they are they realize it takes a lot more than a top notch product to succeed. You also need good marketing, solid service and a committed dealer network that values your product because it makes them money.
I think you are probably correct on most of what you are stating ... I also don't blame Pentax/Ricoh for making the move. They have every right and obligation to do what is correct to secure their place in a very competitive market. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the product line, as it exists right now, commands pricing substantially higher than it was last week. Sales were not emptying the shelves at great levels as it was ... what will it look like over the next few weeks? As a retailer, I'm not so sure I'm going to invest a lot of money in inventory that is probably not going to move very well ... no matter what the margins are.

04-04-2012, 08:02 PM   #437
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I think Pentax has lost it. Who in their right mind would pay CaNikon prices or higher for Pentax glass?
04-04-2012, 08:15 PM   #438
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Guys, please don't feed the troll, Belcik.
luftfluss... I felt offended. I don't remember when was the last time I was called a troll. (you don't have to answer for that not to flood in the topic)

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Don't forget the VAT. We're taxed heavier on our income, they're taxed heavier on their products and generally VAT is included in price as advertised.
Countries have differen tax policies, but any of them is heavier than in USA. It may have progressive income tax up to 30% or 40%, and VAT around 21%. Whereas Russia has income @13% and VAT @18%. Somehow this is not affecting pricing, since we would have to investigate Customs at the first place. The suggested price is by 160 USD higher than in USA (maybe they did not updated it or it is in reality

I still stick to the point, where I think that Pentax is not doing stupid thing, but the final outcome of this is unknown.
I am afraid that none of us knows how much Pentax sales their equipment in USA, how much in other countries. How many of things bought in USA travels abroad? I have bought best of my lenses from B&H, and planned to buy more - but I will not, at least not know. What I will do in future? Switch the system or stay with Pentax - I have no idea. It depends what Pentax will do.
And I would now expect them to do following:
1. Since they got rid of a lot of K5, and created demand for lenses - they watch. Are new users going to buy lenses....or not.
2. If they do not lose much in the global point of view, they will be happy.
3. If they lose to much in the global point of view, this would mean that all world is buying in USA and they will need to handle it somehow.

QuoteOriginally posted by jw48335 Quote
I shipped my new k5 back today.
How many people would be doing this?

I feel terrible that prices in USA reached the level of prices in the rest of the world. The amazon here may be not a good benchmarking because the big thing behind it may be indeed Amazon (as someone already mentioned that idea)
04-04-2012, 09:04 PM   #439
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The bottom line

I don't care about global. The bottom line is that for the price, Pentax glass was just ok, with common QC and longevity issues. Price was often lame- Take the 18-135: same Canon lens was $100 cheaper before this increase, now $140 cheaper. Lots of other examples. It wouldn't be as bad if 3rd party lens support in packages like dxo was good. For that matter the newer lenses like the 24-70 usd tammy are sony and canikon.

Amazon would carry pentax glass even with a miniscule profit margin. Pentax just prices themselves out of the game.

04-04-2012, 09:15 PM   #440
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I love my K-5 and loved the K-7 before that. Having said that, I would NOT have bought into the Pentax system if the price per features and cost of lenses etc had not been substantially lower than the big 2. I felt ripped off when I started having SDM problems with my DA*16-50 f2.8 after the warranty was expired and I only paid $680 new at Amazon for it. Who is gonna buy that lens now at $1500?!?!?

Consumers are the ones that lose when manufacturers engage in price fixing. Competition is good. How many of you made your purchases at the official Pentax online store? I'll bet most of us scoured the internet for the lowest price from a source we trusted, and I'll bet that wasn't the Pentax store. If the Pentax prices continue to soar my next camera may not be a Pentax.
04-04-2012, 09:24 PM   #441
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belcik Quote
Countries have differen tax policies, but any of them is heavier than in USA.
Just to re-iterate - my point was that direct costs comparison of the US to other countries - where the VAT is sometimes/generally/always (depending on country?) included - is invalid.

In the US we have high income taxes and no federal VAT. As a result we are 'entitled' to a lower out-the-door price than a country that has lower income taxes but pays for it's government through markup of consumer goods.
04-04-2012, 09:35 PM   #442
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Not sure if other people noticed, but Amazon has knocked down the prices from MSRP to reasonable numbers. DA40 is at 393, DA35 macro at 580, DA21 at 600. Yeah, it's price increases, but with inflation, the dropping US dollar, it's expected. I'd be willing to pay more for these limited lenses, as they are Pentax's signature lenses with no direct substitutes. Now, the DA* lenses...that's another story. We'll just have to wait and see. I don't think Pentax is planning on completely losing all US sales of DA* lenses. Like Asahiflex said, maybe it's just a phase out of these lenses; perhaps their replacements are right around the corner!
04-04-2012, 09:36 PM   #443
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The 16-50 and 60-250 are still at the old unreasonable 1500 and 2000, respectively.

04-04-2012, 10:39 PM   #444
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Sigma, Tamron and other 3rd party lens makers have got to love the new pricing policy.
04-04-2012, 11:23 PM   #445
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QuoteOriginally posted by ironlionzion Quote
Not sure if other people noticed, but Amazon has knocked down the prices from MSRP to reasonable numbers. DA40 is at 393, DA35 macro at 580, DA21 at 600. Yeah, it's price increases, but with inflation, the dropping US dollar, it's expected. I'd be willing to pay more for these limited lenses, as they are Pentax's signature lenses with no direct substitutes. Now, the DA* lenses...that's another story. We'll just have to wait and see. I don't think Pentax is planning on completely losing all US sales of DA* lenses. Like Asahiflex said, maybe it's just a phase out of these lenses; perhaps their replacements are right around the corner!
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
The 16-50 and 60-250 are still at the old unreasonable 1500 and 2000, respectively.
See above. Replacements lenses ought to have new technology such as ring motors and long warranties. This establishes price, value comes with new features.

QuoteOriginally posted by Arizona Dave Quote
Sigma, Tamron and other 3rd party lens makers have got to love the new pricing policy.
Part of the plan is to make it attractive for 3rd party lens makers to issue in K-mount again.
04-05-2012, 12:35 AM - 2 Likes   #446
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I was following this thread from its beginning up to page 25 and even though the number of negative comments has increased, I'm more optimistic towards the future than I was right after initial shock. Here is why:

What some negative commentators are missing:

1. the fact that Pentax already was an almost dead brand. It had continuous troubles for the last few (maybe not so few) years. If we look at the situation from this point of view, there isn't much Pentax is losing by doing whatever they are doing, they are already at the very bottom or close. They do have to rebuild the brand almost from scratch and almost any consistent policy is good compared to just letting it slide further.

2. Most posters here seem to assume that increasing user base should be the primary goal for Pentax. I disagree. This can be a goal only when Pentax is ready to increase production. Maybe (and most probably considering the deepness of the hole they are in) they are not ready for that. What they are doing is consistent with a plan to build up the brand step by step. Going into B&M stores, building up relations with professionals and dealers is the right thing to do and it should happen way in advance of increasing production and user base.

3. Many assume high prices on lenses will lead to customers ditching their Pentax systems for other brands. I don't think it is an issue for Pentax. Sure some impatient users will jump out of the ship and sell their gear. However most will cool down in a few days when things settle. Also it looks like for many 1 or 2 positive announcements by Pentax will be enough to accept the situation. And I'm sure some announcements will come at some point. Most important though the gear sold by those who are ready to switch will not just disappear. Obviously it either goes to new Pentaxians or reinforces the most loyal ones. For Pentax it is much more important to prepare ground for new potential users who are currently unaware of Pentax existence than pleasing the hard-to-please ones. Keep in mind, Pentax as a company is in no situation to please its customers, they are in a deep hole already. They better do invest in log term brand revival than in short term customer-pleasing by low prices which gives nothing to brand growth.

4. Many of those who are unhappy and criticize assume Pentax will be shocked by complete halt to sales. I don't think Pentax is worried about that.. First of all many of us got the early notice on this forum (or elsewhere) and purchased Pentax in the last week it was at "low" prices. This allowed to dealers to clear their old inventory and prepare for whatever is coming to them from Pentax new. It probably was a very good move to scare many into buying at old prices in view of the coming increase. Current high prices may mean that retailers don't have much stock left at all (and looking at depleted stock at some of them it is a reasonable thing to assume). So they will not really be affected by us not buying at current prices. It will take some time for the situation to settle at least for the dealers to get new stock etc ... this is when we can expect to see some price adjustments. In a sense current prices are artificial: neither the customer is ready to buy, nor the dealers have much stock.

Note: the surge of sales in the last week brought a good number of Pentax items to customers. These items will not disappear. Even if the new owners decide to resell, it will go to some other customers.

5. Some imho do not want to accept it takes significant time to change things in an industry like that. There is nothing you can do to improve the situation in an instant. If we want to have some hope for Pentax, we should understand there will be some unpopular decisions.

In general it seems that Pentax is able to sell everything it produces, so for them the price increase is very well justified especially if the new production run is starting slowly.

Many complain that higher prices will increase prices on used lenses. If it happens and people manage to sell their used stuff at higher prices it means that there is still enough demand for "overpriced" Pentax, this only justifies the overall price increase. If someone buys it, the Pentax brand user base doesn't really diminish.

What does this change mean for me personally:
As you can see in my signature I have no Pentax lenses (sold the only one I had a month ago). My approach is if something is too expensive for you, don't buy it. Thankfully there is plenty of options here. There is Tamron, there is Sigma, there is old manual focus glass. Tamrons and Sigmas have been very stable in price over the last few years and they are still available. Obviously Pentax will have to deal with that competition and obviously Pentax will either adjust the prices so that it can sell whatever they produce, or (if they do not lower the prices) it means that the demand for Pentax is enough for the volume of current production and price increase is totally justified.

Vote with your wallet!

For me as a user this price increase is a good reason to slow down and think over the basics. And the basics are: it is not the number of lenses you have which makes you a great photographer. Well, I was cured from GAS (LBA) a while ago. But maybe someone else can turn this move by Pentax for their own good.

small Note: looking at how well the K-01 was selling despite its questionable qualities, it seems that Pentax has enough customers who buy anything at whatever price. Same with K-5 selling at the introductory price (which was ridiculously high). (Unfortunately) I can not keep others from doing it. As long as this is the case we may expect perfectly justified price increases. Vote with your wallet!

If Pentax recovers and is ready to boost production, it will have to lower prices to cover a wider range of users.

Prospects for Pentax brand:

IMHO it is the right thing for Pentax to go to B&M retailers. I don't see significant reduction in user base. (Those who switch to other brands will either keep Pentax equipment and thus may come back when the brand is doing better or will sell it to more loyal and motivated customers). Being in B&M opens the access to wider consumer base in the future.

Building pro-support networks and dealer reps is a good thing too. It will pay off in long run.

What I think Pentax really needs is
1. rebuilding the brand (through rebuilding pro-support network, retailer contacts ...)
2. promoting the brand (Pentax needs to define the brand advantages in a clear and simple form and promote it)
3. access to wider user base (through presence at B&M stores)

Real negatives of the recent move (price increase):
One thing someone mentioned here is bad timing (tax refund in the US). This is a valid concern. On the other hand Pentax need to be ready for the next holiday season and they sure need time for their new policies to start giving effect.

Lack of communication from Pentax. Many here would have enjoyed even a brief reassuring statement from Ricoh ... Well, lack of it seems common for the industry, not signature of Ricoh alone.

One last note: As far as I understand Hoya did increase prices when it took control. Unavoidably the prices went down eventually. Now Ricoh is doing it better, they don't simply increase the prices, they seem to have some reasoning behind it.

Last edited by vanyagor; 04-05-2012 at 11:41 AM.
04-05-2012, 01:12 AM   #447
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Being the optimist I would hope that if they told us that they were doing then it would jeopardise the reason they did it.
As in- they are going to release replacement DA* lenses- if they told us that then nobody would buy them at all...?

I don't know, I'm clutching at straws ...
04-05-2012, 02:38 AM - 1 Like   #448
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$1,500 for the 16-50 is bonkers. Insane. Box-of-frogs-lunacy. You'd have to be institutionalised after buying it.

What did it's sister, the Tokina 16-50 retail for? $600?
04-05-2012, 03:36 AM   #449
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
$1,500 for the 16-50 is bonkers. Insane. Box-of-frogs-lunacy. You'd have to be institutionalised after buying it.

What did it's sister, the Tokina 16-50 retail for? $600?
there must be something else going on for them to think this is a good move.
there has to be...
04-05-2012, 03:49 AM   #450
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QuoteOriginally posted by parsons Quote
there has to be...
.....yeah! bankruptcy!
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