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04-05-2012, 09:26 AM   #466
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Crutchfield is like B&H and Adorama - a couple of stores (in VA as opposed to NYC) with the vast majority of their sales online. This is not a move into B&M stores IMHO. Also, is this a new line for Crutchfield or is it merely that you just noticed that they carry Pentax?
I think they have had the line for a while now. and they are pretty much the same idea as adorama and BH as you said. pre internet they did most of their business via catalogue just like BH and Adorama

EDIT - looked and they have it all tagged as NEW so maybe they had dropped it and now brought it back

04-05-2012, 09:27 AM   #467
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Crutchfield is a value-added reseller and always has been. Historically, Adorama and B&H were not (altho this seems to have changed a bit). You don't have to have a B&M location to be a VAR. Altho there aren't too many online VARs.

Abe's of Maine comes to mind as a reseller who competes on price only with little or no value-added otherwise.

Adorama and B&H have really bridged the gap (in recent years) by offering value-added services AND the best pricing. They are next to impossible to compete with. At least before the Pentax pricing policy.

QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Crutchfield is like B&H and Adorama - a couple of stores (in VA as opposed to NYC) with the vast majority of their sales online. This is not a move into B&M stores IMHO. Also, is this a new line for Crutchfield or is it merely that you just noticed that they carry Pentax?

Last edited by krebsy75; 04-05-2012 at 09:34 AM.
04-05-2012, 09:36 AM   #468
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I think they have had the line for a while now. and they are pretty much the same idea as adorama and BH as you said. pre internet they did most of their business via catalogue just like BH and Adorama

EDIT - looked and they have it all tagged as NEW so maybe they had dropped it and now brought it back
I looked too and they appear to do that with new items and with new pricing.........
04-05-2012, 09:37 AM   #469
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QuoteOriginally posted by krebsy97 Quote
Crutchfield is a value-added reseller and always has been. Historically, Adorama and B&H were not (altho this seems to have changed a bit). You don't have to have a B&M location to be a VAR. Altho there aren't too many online VARs.

Abe's of Maine comes to mind as a reseller who competes on price only with little or no value-added otherwise.

Adorama and B&H have really bridged the gap (in recent years) by offering value-added services AND the best pricing. They are next to impossible to compete with. At least before the Pentax pricing policy.
I have purchased, within the past 18 months, from each of the sellers you cite. I find that 3 do a top flight job in how they treat the customer and post-sales service, and then there is Abe's.

04-05-2012, 09:45 AM - 1 Like   #470
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Assuming that is the reason, screwing with your customers to try and make your brick and mortar dealers happy seems like a bad move when you have nothing else to compensate for the increase with.

Really, how can anything that damages your relationship with your existing customers be a good thing? Any logical and successful company wouldn't experiment at this level with their customers. Wouldn't doing things to respect your customers be a better route? Ricoh/Pentax, you need to win and continue to win our dollars. If you price yourself at or above the competition for various respective lenses, and are lacking from a technical standpoint, you should expect a (substantial) negative outcome on the sale of those specific lenses.

On lenses that are currently in production, a reasonable customer would accept average increases if they were justifiable, such as with currency or manufacturing cost fluctuations.

The issue could have been handled better by:
- Release improved "version 2" lenses at a higher price and keep it there.
- Include a 3 year (ed. 5 to match Nikon) warranty with better support, and more servicing options than one shop in Arizona if you are going to charge almost 90% more on some lenses.

Would I consider one of the lenses with a large increase? On principle, I don't think I would.
However, I'd see if the lens is competitively priced and technically equivalent with competition. For example, the 16-50, 60-250, 50-135, don't seem to meet that criteria anymore.

Last edited by sjwaldron; 04-05-2012 at 10:25 AM.
04-05-2012, 10:04 AM   #471
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
i'm in a holding pattern until Photokina. If this was to help the B&M stores, I get it. However, if they want to price at the same level as canikon, then where's the new technology, services and warranties to offset the price. So far it's been a one-way street.

I'm going out to shoot and enjoy my Pentax camera.
Precisely the correct response.
04-05-2012, 10:10 AM - 1 Like   #472
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I was going to buy a DA* 16-50 and a DA* 50-135 later this month. That plan is now shot. Now, I am wondering if I should liquidate my Pentax equipment and buy a Nikon D7000 with the Tokina ATX lenses the DA* lenses are based on. I think if you're upset and angry about this, I would encourage you to go post to Pentax's Facebook wall. There's already quite a few posts there.
04-05-2012, 10:15 AM   #473
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
- Include a 3 year warranty with better support, and more servicing options than one shop in Arizona if you are going to charge almost 90% more on some lenses.
At least 5 years, to match Nikon. Pentax needs to "try harder".

Several of us have posted sentiments similar to yours. Right now I think the wisest move for those with established Pentax kits is to wait and see.

04-05-2012, 10:16 AM   #474
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
I'm going out to shoot... my Pentax camera.
What kind of gun will you use?
04-05-2012, 10:35 AM   #475
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
At least 5 years, to match Nikon. Pentax needs to "try harder".
Several of us have posted sentiments similar to yours. Right now I think the wisest move for those with established Pentax kits is to wait and see.
Yeah, I was thinking about writing 5 but didn't have much frame of reference to what other companies have... I edited the post.

I'm not in a position or disire to switch brands, but as you and others feel, I'm not thrilled about the perceived money grab without any benefit in either features or warranty. The biggest issue from my point of view is they they decide to money grab before doing anything else.

While I'm not a pro, I do occasional make some money with my photography. If I had a job that required a new lens like the 50-135 that I don't have, that pricing difference would have easily been the difference between picking one up or not.

The issue is exasperated by lesser 3rd party Support. We don't have access to many Tokina lenses and others that are exclusive to Canon/Nikon. So from a customer point of view, Pentax should be the one sticking their neck out to win new customers, not kicking their existing ones in the back-end and expecting them to just stand there and take it. The order at which they do things is just as important. If they do decide to adjust prices or offer us a better warranty, it's already to late to save face.
04-05-2012, 10:55 AM - 1 Like   #476
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
Yeah, I was thinking about writing 5 but didn't have much frame of reference to what other companies have... I edited the post.

I'm not in a position or disire to switch brands, but as you and others feel, I'm not thrilled about the perceived money grab without any benefit in either features or warranty. The biggest issue from my point of view is they they decide to money grab before doing anything else.

While I'm not a pro, I do occasional make some money with my photography. If I had a job that required a new lens like the 50-135 that I don't have, that pricing difference would have easily been the difference between picking one up or not.

The issue is exasperated by lesser 3rd party Support. We don't have access to many Tokina lenses and others that are exclusive to Canon/Nikon. So from a customer point of view, Pentax should be the one sticking their neck out to win new customers, not kicking their existing ones in the back-end and expecting them to just stand there and take it. The order at which they do things is just as important. If they do decide to adjust prices or offer us a better warranty, it's already to late to save face.
At the old prices Tokina, Sigma, et. al. are reluctant to issue in K-mount - how can they compete with Pentax lenses at such low prices. Maybe now they will rethink.

I think the bad news had to come first to both close the book on Hoya and set the table for the "better" news that is in the wings.
04-05-2012, 11:03 AM   #477
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
It depends on what you are looking for... the Nikon kit lens and the 18-105 are equal to or better than their Pentax equivalents optically,
Sorry if this come across as rude, but .... You're kidding, right? The Nikon kit zoom is utter junk.
04-05-2012, 11:13 AM   #478
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QuoteOriginally posted by ibkc Quote
Sorry if this come across as rude, but .... You're kidding, right? The Nikon kit zoom is utter junk.
Don't worry, be as rude as you want, it doesn't change the facts. Optically, the Nikon 18-55 kit lens is similar to the Pentax Mk. II.

You know Nikon reformulated it a couple years ago, right?

Nikkor AF-S DX 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR - Review / Test Report - Analysis

Pentax SMC DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AL WR - Lab Test / Review - Analysis
04-05-2012, 11:28 AM   #479
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Don't worry, be as rude as you want, it doesn't change the facts. Optically, the Nikon 18-55 kit lens is similar to the Pentax Mk. II.

You know Nikon reformulated it a couple years ago, right?

Nikkor AF-S DX 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR - Review / Test Report - Analysis

Pentax SMC DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AL WR - Lab Test / Review - Analysis
Ah, OK -- I was going by the one I had that came with my D60, which I got in, I think, 2008? Oh, was that a bad lens. Just awful. I understood that it was the lowest of the low-end, but it really had me questioning why Nikon is held in such high regard, if they are happy to foist such cr*p on their entry-level users. (Still does, actually. We were rather poor then and to replace that lens with something better was not something I could do, because their glass is so expensive.)
04-05-2012, 11:32 AM   #480
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QuoteOriginally posted by ibkc Quote
Ah, OK -- I was going by the one I had that came with my D60, which I got in, I think, 2008? Oh, was that a bad lens. Just awful. I understood that it was the lowest of the low-end, but it really had me questioning why Nikon is held in such high regard, if they are happy to foist such cr*p on their entry-level users. (Still does, actually. We were rather poor then and to replace that lens with something better was not something I could do, because their glass is so expensive.)
Yeah, when I got my K100D, the kit lens was noticeably better than what came with Nikon. From what I understand, both Nikon & Canon have reformulated their kit lenses since then.
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