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04-05-2012, 11:36 AM   #481
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
At the old prices Tokina, Sigma, et. al. are reluctant to issue in K-mount - how can they compete with Pentax lenses at such low prices. Maybe now they will rethink.

I think the bad news had to come first to both close the book on Hoya and set the table for the "better" news that is in the wings.
I think the "bad news" should have come with better communication and some good news regarding warranty & support. I posted something along these lines a few pages back.

I'm wondering if Ricoh has somewhat misjudged the close-knit nature of the Pentax community (compared to Canikon) and the siege mentality that some (many) Pentax users have.

04-05-2012, 12:18 PM   #482
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QuoteQuote:
At the old prices Tokina, Sigma, et. al. are reluctant to issue in K-mount - how can they compete with Pentax lenses at such low prices. Maybe now they will rethink.
That's just complete and utter nonsense.
04-05-2012, 12:23 PM   #483
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
I think the "bad news" should have come with better communication and some good news regarding warranty & support. I posted something along these lines a few pages back.

I'm wondering if Ricoh has somewhat misjudged the close-knit nature of the Pentax community (compared to Canikon) and the siege mentality that some (many) Pentax users have.
Well it is most definitely a conundrum. They've certainly made me look like a fanboy
... and you will be happy?
04-05-2012, 12:42 PM   #484
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Well it is most definitely a conundrum. They've certainly made me look like a fanboy
... and you will be happy?
You know, I won't be "happy"... but over the last couple of days I have realized that this is the pricing mode that an increasing number of industries are going with. With time comes acceptance, eh?

You & I & a couple of other folks here have posted what we feel/hope/expect to happen in the future regarding support and product improvements and all that. And if PRIC wants to play in the same pricing tiers as Canikony, they should be ready to be evaluated by the same standards... and given that Pentax is a tertiary player in the market, IMO they really do need to "try harder" as they rebuild the Pentax brand for the general public's consumption.

Maybe it's because it's baseball's Opening Day(s), but I do feel more optimistic than I did 2 days ago. I think that our expectations, as Pentax customers, can realistically be met.

"Be of good cheer, Pentaxians. Ricoh has a plan which they are implementing clumsily and yet you may eventually be happy."

04-05-2012, 12:45 PM - 1 Like   #485
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luftfluss,
and others,
imho you over estimate the negative impact of this new policy. it does not affect potential new customers because

1. those don't even know about Pentax yet
2. a random newcomer (especially if doesn't know much about photography/cameras - and that is 90% of the user base) will look at the cost of the basic kit, which was not affected by the new policy, in fact Amazon dropped again yesterday I think (back to pre-announcement figures).
3. The Tamron/Sigma option is still there. It was the best value (many thought so including the official review on this forum). So if you come to Pentax for a low value kit you still get a very well priced body + the great value Tamron (which was the best value already before the new pricing policy).
4. The limiteds are attractive, however they are quite expensive. The user base which could not afford them even before the price increase is much bigger than the number of those who can. For the first ones the situation didn't change (they would not buy limiteds before and they won't now)

For existing users:
Yes any price increase for the end user will not be well received - that's natural. However, if we drop the emotions and think better:
1. Majority of existing users do have a good Pentax kit already and were not planning to add extra lenses, only a small number of those who were willing to spend the money soon is affected
2. One way or another the prices will go down eventually. This happened before and will happen again. This will make a good number of upset users happy again. So happy that people will be actually ready to pay more than prior to the price increase. (That is how consumer psychology work on average). The emotional type who were upset the most will also cool down the quickest I expect the prices to drift down quite soon.
3. Positive announcements by Pentax will follow - this will make majority happy again. Many posters here have expressed the idea that if they get the good news they can accept the new higher prices.

In case prices do not go down it can mean one of the following (and in all cases, the price increase is either justified or doesn't matter):
1. Pentax and retailers do not have stock at this moment
2. There are enough customers willing to pay a higher price.
3. Pentax is dead already

What can we do as customers: Vote with our wallets!

I don't really get this talk about ditching Pentax for Full Frame. Pentax never had a Full Frame dSLR and never promised one (though now there are a few small indications there might be a Full Frame in some distant future). If you need one, you should have made the move to another brand much earlier. My approach is: get the tool (camera or lens) when you need it. If you haven't bought the Full Frame yet, maybe you don't need it that much? If you really do need a full frame, go get one now.

It's somewhat funny to see posters with a K-01 in the signature compare about MSRP prices (which have not changed btw).
04-05-2012, 01:19 PM - 1 Like   #486
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
"Be of good cheer, Pentaxians. Ricoh has a plan which they are implementing clumsily and yet you may eventually be happy."
Well one thing is certain - PRIC is certainly no Petruchio to our Katharine.

Last edited by monochrome; 04-05-2012 at 01:29 PM.
04-05-2012, 01:21 PM   #487
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QuoteOriginally posted by vanyagor Quote
Pentax never had a Full Frame dSLR and never promised one
Didn't they have a prototype at one stage, which never made it to the market
because the intended sensor supplier (Philips) couldn't deliver?
04-05-2012, 01:24 PM   #488
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QuoteOriginally posted by miltona580 Quote
I was going to buy a DA* 16-50 and a DA* 50-135 later this month. That plan is now shot. Now, I am wondering if I should liquidate my Pentax equipment and buy a Nikon D7000 with the Tokina ATX lenses the DA* lenses are based on. I think if you're upset and angry about this, I would encourage you to go post to Pentax's Facebook wall. There's already quite a few posts there.
I don't use Facebook but went to see what was being written, I can find nothing on the price hike whatsoever on the Facebook page for Pentax.

04-05-2012, 01:25 PM   #489
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Well one thing is certain - PRIC is certainly no Petruchio to our Katharine.
Wow, great reference - you get a +1 from me for that.
04-05-2012, 01:30 PM   #490
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Wow, great reference - you get a +1 from me for that.
We hope - because in the end she was tamed
04-05-2012, 01:34 PM   #491
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Didn't they have a prototype at one stage, which never made it to the market
because the intended sensor supplier (Philips) couldn't deliver?
The Philips FF sensor available at the time performed so poorly that the engineering group stopped development without releasing it to production.
04-05-2012, 01:41 PM   #492
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But have you noticed none of the amazon k-5's are from amazon now? They are all from 3rd party resellers. Warranty questions there for me.
04-05-2012, 01:42 PM - 1 Like   #493
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QuoteOriginally posted by vanyagor Quote
luftfluss...
Good post, Vanyagor. I'm going to cut the quote so I don't kill the page.

I'll briefly put forth:

- New users sometimes (often?) receive advice from other DSLR owners prior to taking the plunge. Assuming that the Pentaxian-to-be hasn't been dissuaded from Pentax by the cries of non-Pentax users, someone is bound to bring up, "Pentax just raised prices". People hate that phrase.

- Folks who do a thorough job researching systems prior to purchasing will see higher lens prices, and shorter warranties.

- I agree about your point WRT lenses prices increasing, then decreasing, and then increasing again to a lesser degree, and people being happy with it. We've seen that with gasoline prices in the USA.

- Yes, we need good news, positive announcements, something tangible, if not concrete.

- Full frame... Suppose by the end of the summer this current situation is the status quo. There are going to be Pentax users whose lens collections have appreciated significantly. The entry price of FF is falling. This will be the financial impetus for users to switch brands.

- Full Frame (2)... Of course most people clamoring for FF don't "need" it. They want it. I see folks who can barely produce a quality, well-composed image out of their K-5's state that they are ready to "move up". It's ego, gadget-envy, epeen... whatever.

All we can do is wait & see. I think anyone can be happy with any DSLR system if they choose to do so.
04-05-2012, 01:50 PM   #494
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Ricoh may have a plan, but its goal is to make Ricoh - or actually its shareholders - happy. Customers may get happy too, but that'd be more a by-product.
04-05-2012, 01:53 PM   #495
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QuoteOriginally posted by baldeagle21b Quote
The Philips FF sensor available at the time performed so poorly that the engineering group stopped development without releasing it to production.
the same sensor pretty much was the cause of contax' demise too
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