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04-05-2012, 02:00 PM   #496
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QuoteOriginally posted by baldeagle21b Quote
The Philips FF sensor available at the time performed so poorly that the engineering group stopped development without releasing it to production.
The post was in reference to the other poster saying Pentax never had a FF and never promised or intended to have one. However, they fact that the developed a prototype and revealed that prototype at shows suggests they did intend to introduce a full frame digital body.

04-05-2012, 02:02 PM   #497
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
At the old prices Tokina, Sigma, et. al. are reluctant to issue in K-mount - how can they compete with Pentax lenses at such low prices. Maybe now they will rethink.

I think the bad news had to come first to both close the book on Hoya and set the table for the "better" news that is in the wings.
Remember, Tokina quite K-mount following the take over by the Hoya boys. That said, there is a Tokina version of the DA 35mm Ltd Macro that I would get for a Nikon body in a New York second if I ever get another Nikon body.
04-05-2012, 02:04 PM - 1 Like   #498
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
i'm in a holding pattern until Photokina. If this was to help the B&M stores, I get it. However, if they want to price at the same level as canikon, then where's the new technology, services and warranties to offset the price. So far it's been a one-way street.

I'm going out to shoot and enjoy my Pentax camera.
If enough of us end up in a holding pattern, Pentax will have to rely on building a new customer base.
04-05-2012, 02:10 PM   #499
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
At the old prices Tokina, Sigma, et. al. are reluctant to issue in K-mount - how can they compete with Pentax lenses at such low prices. Maybe now they will rethink.
I'm not talking about the lenses that they have mutual interests in. I'm talking about lenses like the 11-16mm f2.8, which is pretty appealing, but not in Pentax mount. We just have fewer lens options available to us, and now we have the same situation, but with more expense.


QuoteOriginally posted by vanyagor Quote
3. The Tamron/Sigma option is still there. It was the best value (many thought so including the official review on this forum). So if you come to Pentax for a low value kit you still get a very well priced body + the great value Tamron (which was the best value already before the new pricing policy).
We don't get the same lens treatment from Tamron and Sigma as the big two get. There are lenses from Tamron and Sigma that only the big two have (maybe Sony, not sure).


QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
Ricoh may have a plan, but its goal is to make Ricoh - or actually its shareholders - happy. Customers may get happy too, but that'd be more a by-product.
That sounds like a recipe for failure. If customers aren't happy and interested enough in their offerings to buy them, then they have no business.

04-05-2012, 03:39 PM   #500
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
I'm not talking about the lenses that they have mutual interests in. I'm talking about lenses like the 11-16mm f2.8, which is pretty appealing, but not in Pentax mount. We just have fewer lens options available to us, and now we have the same situation, but with more expense.
My point is there is a greater likelihood they will issue a K-mount 11-16/2.8 if Pentax isn't competing across the board on a price basis. The ripple effects of channel price (mis-)management are broader than we first see. (Voigtlander, too).
04-05-2012, 03:43 PM   #501
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
The post was in reference to the other poster saying Pentax never had a FF and never promised or intended to have one. However, they fact that the developed a prototype and revealed that prototype at shows suggests they did intend to introduce a full frame digital body.
Agreed, and that's what I was trying to say. The Pentax FF prototype shown might have been released to production if only the Philips sensor had delivered images acceptable to Pentax engineers..
04-05-2012, 03:48 PM   #502
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
My point is there is a greater likelihood they will issue a K-mount 11-16/2.8 if Pentax isn't competing across the board on a price basis.
True, assuming there's the same number of Pentax customers.

Perhaps the number of customers will go up, assuming the sales force pushing Pentax increases due to the higher margin.

Perhaps the number of customers will go down, because there's really not a lot of reason to go with Pentax if you can already get better lenses for the same price with Canon/Nikon and can already get third party lenses at a low price with Canon/Nikon.

I'm still thinking (hoping) that the lens prices will come down somewhat. I've pretty much made up my mind to purchase a larger format camera by the end of this year.
04-05-2012, 04:57 PM   #503
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I do think this is a tempest in a tea pot. Ricoh/Pentax aren't idiots. They do have a plan. It has to include new camera bodies, lenses and an increasing base of customers. In order to do that, they have to price according to the marketplace. If Nikon and Canon sell their 17-55 f2.8 lenses for 1400 and 1100 dollars respectively (from B and H pricing), then Pentax can't go way over that. At the same time, it is silly for them to price the lens far beneath that, effectively pricing most of their dealers out of the mix.

The US Dollar isn't very strong now, as compared to 6 or 7 years ago and yet prices have stayed fairly constant since Hoya introduced a price jump (which was the end of the world at that time too) 4 years ago.

04-05-2012, 05:15 PM   #504
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
the same sensor pretty much was the cause of contax' demise too
At the risk of beating a horse long since dead, here is a review of the N-1 that was published at Luminous Landscape. It seems from this review that the sensor was not the total disaster of my recollection, but it was power hungry and ate batteries at a prodigious rate and the firmware and software had too may flaws for the camera to be successful in most markets.

Contax N Digital Review
04-05-2012, 05:31 PM   #505
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I do think this is a tempest in a tea pot. Ricoh/Pentax aren't idiots. They do have a plan. It has to include new camera bodies, lenses and an increasing base of customers.
It would be great if they eventually have a reasonable plan. The issue, at least to me, with their plan is that they chose to raise their prices significantly on various lenses before doing anything else. When you can buy something one day for $1200, and the next day the same exact thing with the same warranty it is $2000, most people would feel like they are being taken advantage of. That's what it comes down to from my position.

So recently I did a photo job for a small business. I gave them an estimate by saying how many hours and the rate, but I also gave a fixed number based on that estimate. The job turned out taking more time than I anticipated, but I didn't try to get more than the number I gave them before starting. Before starting, he expected a specific rate, and that's what I gave him regardless of if I had to take more time than estimated or I wanted to change myself into a premium photographer. Now, the next job like that.... I'll ask for more to start off.

Last edited by sjwaldron; 04-05-2012 at 05:56 PM.
04-05-2012, 05:49 PM - 1 Like   #506
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This pisses me off. I just switched to Pentax from Canon last summer and now these exorbitant price increases. I had just built up a nice Pentax collection too. I may switch back and sell off my hoard unless some clarity comes to this Ricoh/Pentax direction.
04-05-2012, 06:53 PM   #507
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Bye bye Pentax ! I was waiting for the next round of pentax cameras so i could upgrade but that probably isn't going to happen now that the prices are fixed.. Pentax has no new cameras but nearly doubles the prices on lenses,many with out-dated auto focus systems.Pentax better wake up cause Sigma is kickin your ass!
04-05-2012, 07:10 PM   #508
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Who wants some cheese?
04-05-2012, 07:28 PM   #509
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QuoteOriginally posted by bschriver11 Quote
Bye bye Pentax ! I was waiting for the next round of pentax cameras so i could upgrade but that probably isn't going to happen now that the prices are fixed.. Pentax has no new cameras but nearly doubles the prices on lenses,many with out-dated auto focus systems.Pentax better wake up cause Sigma is kickin your ass!
While I certainly understand the sentiment - and share it to some degree - it is entirely possible that Pentax has a plan that most of us might even approve of, but this stage of implementation is being handled poorly. This is what I personally am choosing to believe, but I guess that doesn't make it any more or less valid than any other viewpoint.
04-05-2012, 07:32 PM   #510
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I do think this is a tempest in a tea pot. Ricoh/Pentax aren't idiots. They do have a plan. It has to include new camera bodies, lenses and an increasing base of customers. In order to do that, they have to price according to the marketplace. If Nikon and Canon sell their 17-55 f2.8 lenses for 1400 and 1100 dollars respectively (from B and H pricing), then Pentax can't go way over that. At the same time, it is silly for them to price the lens far beneath that, effectively pricing most of their dealers out of the mix.

The US Dollar isn't very strong now, as compared to 6 or 7 years ago and yet prices have stayed fairly constant since Hoya introduced a price jump (which was the end of the world at that time too) 4 years ago.
I'm sure they have a plan, but their current handling of it is idiotic. A brief, non in-depth statement by them could have made this a squall rather than a tempest.

The previous street pricing of $800 for the 16-50 was probably in-line with what it should have been, given the SDM issues, (apparently) significant sample variation, and substandard 1 year warranty.
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