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04-13-2012, 05:30 PM   #841
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Come to Canada to buy the Pentax DA* 60-250mm f4.0 ED SDM
.a lot cheaper

Pentax DA* 60-250mm f4.0 ED SDM - Canada and Cross-Border Price Comparison - photoprice.ca

04-13-2012, 05:56 PM - 1 Like   #842
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I've been sitting on the sidelines with this issue - I've read every page of this thread - has become a part of my evening internet session to follow along with this thread.

I just thought I would comment with my feelings on all this. Now I am strictly an amateur who enjoys shooting pics. I've been shooting film SLR's all my life, then after a hiatus of ~10 years, came back into the digital age about 1.5 years ago. At that time after a lot of research, I chose Pentax as my system because of the value offered and the aspect of using so many of the great old lenses.

Through the past 1.5 years, I've become kind of a gear junkie, and have acquired quite a bit of equipment in my eyes (see sig). I thoroughly enjoy the equipment I have to fulfill my hobby.

When the news of the Pricing Policy first hit, I didn't think too much about it - I usually don't worry about such things - I also don't play the stock market or the lottery. I had a "wait and see" attitude about it all. Besides, I should be out shooting and enjoying my hobby instead of being here......

Anyway, I would never call my equipment an "investment" - camera bodies depreciate as fast as a new vehicle, but I feel good lenses can hold their own in the market. My guideline (naive as it may be) is that I should be able to get 75% of the value of my lenses on the used market if I want to sell them as long as I bought them at the right price. I know I shouldn't think of my equipment in the sense of what it is worth if I sold it, but it does play into it for me. For me, I've spent a lot of money on lenses in the past 1.5 years, and I would like the value of those lenses to be worth something.

Now that it's been a couple weeks from this shocking (to me) price change, the fact that Ricoh/Pentax is not coming forward with any kind of news, is starting to bother me. There is no reassurance from this company whatsoever. I now start to wonder what they are up to. I'm not verse in the retail market at all, but in the basic sense in my mind is for a company to "follow the money". To follow the money, a company must make a product that the masses want. In my mind, the "masses" aren't enthusiasts, but ones who want something that is the latest, greatest, and easiest. In the imaging market, I don't know where that would lead.

I'm really starting to get the feeling that something is up - yes a big change is forthcoming, but a change to what? Is this possibly the end of the mid-range APS-C for Pentax?

For the first time since I've been back in the digital imaging hobby, I feel that something is wrong. I am seriously contemplating the start of acquiring a second system to run alongside my Pentax gear. And no, I don't want a FF setup - APS-C is plenty for my hobby. And no, I doubt I am going to "jump ship" to Canon or Nikon. I might just try out the M43 system - I really think that the M43 is going places although right now the sensors are a bit behind the great APS-C.

Well, for some reason I wanted to post my personal opinion here - take it for what it's worth. The main gist of all this is that for the first time since owning my Pentax gear, I am thinking about switching to something else.
04-13-2012, 06:06 PM   #843
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
Come to Canada to buy the Pentax DA* 60-250mm f4.0 ED SDM
.a lot cheaper

Pentax DA* 60-250mm f4.0 ED SDM - Canada and Cross-Border Price Comparison - photoprice.ca
Next they'll be coming up here for pharmaceuticals as well... jeez!
04-13-2012, 06:35 PM   #844
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QuoteOriginally posted by stormtech Quote
Well, for some reason I wanted to post my personal opinion here
I think you are, like alot of people (me included) looking for some reasoning behind what Pentax is up to, and for Pentax to give some reasurance that you have made the right decition buying in to Pentax. The fact that Pentax can't produce even a press release makes me second guess my choices...
Pentax, communicate with the people that pays for your wages !!!!

04-13-2012, 06:59 PM - 1 Like   #845
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Unfortunately for we Americans Pentax is weaker here than just about anywhere else on Earth. We don't have any experience (as Americans) being less important than other markets, so we don't know how to read the signals being given by Pentax Japan.

The signals are - You are not a good market for us. you screwed up. You will no longer disturb pricing in our good markets. You are not taking us to our grave. We'll tell you what's happening when it suits our plan, which is intact and robust.

Last edited by monochrome; 04-13-2012 at 07:39 PM.
04-13-2012, 07:11 PM   #846
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Unfortunately for we Americans Pentax is weaker here than just about anywhere else on Earth. We don't have any experience (as Americans) being less important than other markets, so we don't know how read the signals being given by Pentax Japan.

The signals are - You are not a good market for us. you screwed up. You will no longer disturb pricing in our good markets. You are not taking us to our grave. We'll tell you what's happening when it suits our plan, which is intact and robust.
Interesting perspective. Seems that Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Panasonic see us as an essential market and treat us as such. Back when Pentax was actually a contender (like <1980) they had a robust infrastructure in the US as well and it served them well.
04-13-2012, 07:20 PM   #847
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QuoteOriginally posted by Silverstierna Quote
I think you are, like alot of people (me included) looking for some reasoning behind what Pentax is up to, and for Pentax to give some reasurance that you have made the right decition buying in to Pentax. The fact that Pentax can't produce even a press release makes me second guess my choices...
Pentax, communicate with the people that pays for your wages !!!!
Thank you for that - after rereading my post, I was really rambling and didn't think I got my point across - you summarized my feelings very well.
04-13-2012, 07:30 PM   #848
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Interesting perspective. Seems that Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Panasonic see us as an essential market and treat us as such. Back when Pentax was actually a contender (like <1980) they had a robust infrastructure in the US as well and it served them well.
That was over 30 years ago for Pentax and to the others we are an essential market because they have a market.

Whatever the reasons, in the largest consumer market on Earth Pentax is a fly speck by comparison to the leaders. Somehow Pentax blew the most amazing growth period in history - and now they simply cannot compete here. Ricoh seems to be telling us P-USA screwed up so big they're fixing everything else salvageable first.

Maybe they'll get around to us later - or maybe not.


Last edited by monochrome; 04-13-2012 at 07:36 PM.
04-13-2012, 07:36 PM   #849
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O.K. I'm going to throw out several "WILD GUESSES" about what is going on at Pentax....you may vote for the best wild guess or ad your own.

WG #1) Pentax is using the current HIGH PRICES to stop all sales and get a handle on equipment that is in the sales pipeline that is used/returned/defective but being sold as brand new. If they were to do this along with tightening up their QA standards it would drastically reduce returns and thus increase profits and customer/retailer satisfaction.

WG #2) Ricoh bought Pentax to take a business loss and plans to strangle the company.

WG #3) Accountants have found some "irregularities" a la Olympus style.
Former executives, bankers arrested over Olympus fraud | Reuters

WG #4) Pentax has it's anterior lodged in it's posterior.


Disclaimer: All wild guesses are just guesses. Any similarity to actual events is strictly coincidental. Void where prohibited by law.

HAPPY FRIDAY FOLKS!!!

Last edited by SuperK5; 04-13-2012 at 07:53 PM.
04-13-2012, 07:54 PM   #850
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I wonder if there is any actual contract regarding price, it would seem that for there to be it would violate various price fixing and anti-trust laws in the US. If not, then they have had stock build up and are selling it at lower prices to lower inventory. Again, $2k = 0 sales = 0 profits vs. $1719 = some sales (7 listed as in stock) = some profit - seems a no brainer to me to lower the price under those conditions.
Yes, you're right. A contract to maintain the minimum price is a violation. However, Pentax USA can simply announce that they will no longer sell to dealers who price certain products in certain ways. That's acceptable in law as long as there's no collusion among retailers. Apple and the publishing industry are keeping this topic alive in the news. You might try digging into Monsanto versus Spray-Rite if you absolutely cannot get to sleep tonight.

However, in the situation regarding Amazon and Pentax USA, you have to ask who has the stronger hand.
04-13-2012, 07:56 PM   #851
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QuoteOriginally posted by SuperK5 Quote
O.K. I'm going to throw out several "WILD GUESSES" about what is going on at Pentax....you may vote for the best wild guess or ad your own.

WG #1) Pentax is using the current HIGH PRICES to stop all sales and get a handle on equipment that is in the sales pipeline that is used/returned/defective but being sold as brand new. If they were to do this along with tightening up their QA standards it would drastically reduce returns and thus increase profits and customer/retailer satisfaction.
Possible, but implausible. There are better ways to do that. Pentax is slowing sales to regain control of its product distribution in the USA, where certain retailers were both creating and using the gray market to Pentax's detriment

QuoteOriginally posted by SuperK5 Quote
WG #2) Ricoh bought Pentax to take a business loss and plans to strangle the company.
Not likely. Ricoh (RICOY ADR) had all the losses it needs all by itself in the fiscal 3rd and 4th quarters, ended March 31, 2012.

QuoteOriginally posted by SuperK5 Quote
WG #3) Accountants have found some "irregularities" a la Olympus style.
Former executives, bankers arrested over Olympus fraud | Reuters
Not likely. A better business strategy would be to immediately reveal the irregularities and sue Hoya for damages.

QuoteOriginally posted by SuperK5 Quote
WG #4) Pentax has it's anterior lodged in it's posterior.
Be of good cheer. Ricoh has a plan and you will be happy.

QuoteOriginally posted by SuperK5 Quote
Disclaimer: All wild guesses are just guesses. Any similarity to actual events is strictly coincidental. Void where prohibited by law.

HAPPY FRIDAY FOLKS!!!
04-13-2012, 08:06 PM   #852
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
Yes, you're right. A contract to maintain the minimum price is a violation. However, Pentax USA can simply announce that they will no longer sell to dealers who price certain products in certain ways. That's acceptable in law as long as there's no collusion among retailers. Apple and the publishing industry are keeping this topic alive in the news. You might try digging into Monsanto versus Spray-Rite if you absolutely cannot get to sleep tonight.

However, in the situation regarding Amazon and Pentax USA, you have to ask who has the stronger hand.
Amazon without question. They do NOT need Pentax but I do not know how any manufacturer of consumer electronics can reasonably expect to be a real player in the US if Amazon does not carry their product, unless they are so well established and such a niche player that Needless Markup and other such are their only outlets.
04-14-2012, 12:27 AM - 3 Likes   #853
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Be of good cheer. Ricoh has a plan and you will be happy.
I'm sorry, but what makes you think people will be happy because Ricoh has a (good) plan and it will execute it quite well (hopefully)?
On the contrary, I'd rather think about scenarios like:
A. Pentax will launch a cheap but excellent entry level camera, with few lenses to match. Higher end cameras would follow, but no announcement yet.
"What? They're only making cheap junk now? Where's the K-5 replacement? Even more important, where is my FF?"
B. Pentax will launch the K-5's replacement.
"What? No FF? Pentax is spending money on that dying APS-C?"
C. Pentax will launch a FF (unlikely, right now)
"It's sooo expensive! It shouldn't cost more than a second (third, fourth... n-th) hand Canon 5D (Mk I), yet they dare to price it so close to the competition's?
And what's that, they don't even have a full lens range from day 1! Such incompetence!"
D. Pentax will launch an unnamed high end and highly expensive professional camera.
"They're wasting money, I'm telling you! They should abandon all their customers and start making lenses for m4/3!"
E. Pentax will launch the camera you want, for a price you're willing to pay
"I'd rather go with the Nikon, all this whining on the Pentax forums tired me"
04-14-2012, 02:49 AM - 1 Like   #854
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QuoteQuote:

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong
man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The
credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short
again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but
who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the
great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in
the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at
least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those
cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Citizenship in a Republic is the title of a speech given by the former President of the United States, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne in Paris, France on April 23, 1910. It is sometimes referred to as "The Man in the Arena". It was rapturously received by the French (from Wikipedia)

Right now, Ricoh is the "man who is actually in the arena" and I think we need to respect that.
04-14-2012, 03:14 AM   #855
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
It is sometimes referred to as "The Man in the Arena".
Is that describing Ned Bunnell, trying to fight his way to the keyboard in order to write the message he promised?

Kunzite, why mock Pentaxians? They didn't announce a message and then did not deliver.
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