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04-16-2012, 01:35 PM   #901
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Does Pentax have any major manufacturing in Japan? Lenses are assembled in Vietnam.
Well, their corporate offices are still in Japan.

04-16-2012, 01:37 PM   #902
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QuoteOriginally posted by turbosaturn Quote
Perhaps what is happening in this news article, is what is going on with Pentax. Daring to Cut Off Amazon - Yahoo! Finance If Ricoh is in it for the long game, maybe the pricing is to allow brick and mortar stores to compete with online retailers so that they may be able to carry Pentax gear. I could see why a b&m store would refuse to line their shelves with Pentax items if they are constantly being undercut by internet retailers. It appears to be a necessary evil just so that Pentax can get back onto store shelves and start building brand recognition.
That would bother me if the publishers weren't such asses with regards to pricing - the same list price for a physical book that requires paper, printing, transport, etc., etc. as an electronic copy? If they would get real about what the actual costs are and stop trying to jack both the authors and the readers then I might have more sympathy for them.
04-16-2012, 02:15 PM   #903
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QuoteQuote:
it's not a 6 month fix this will take at least 2 years and certainly some users will bleed to other brands, but the long term should be more new users (and the ones who leave if they sell their gear will in many cases bring in a new user who replaces them
Which does exactly WHAT for current users?

Nothing.

The ONLY one gaining here is Pentax/Richo.
04-16-2012, 02:22 PM   #904
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QuoteOriginally posted by AGWoodard Quote
Which does exactly WHAT for current users?

Nothing.

The ONLY one gaining here is Pentax/Richo.
And that is bad . . . . why, again?

04-16-2012, 02:28 PM   #905
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QuoteOriginally posted by AGWoodard Quote
Which does exactly WHAT for current users?

Nothing.

The ONLY one gaining here is Pentax/Richo.
I'm not sure how an obscure brand increases its user base over two years by upping its prices dramatically on its lenses. The FA50 is now $495, the DA*55 is now $799, while the Nikon and Canon 50/1.8s (I really DO NOT CARE IF THEY AREN'T as good, because to newbies its all about the price and name) are <$140! So, if you have someone who wants to get into dSLR photography and they see that Nikon and Canon have nice intro cameras with zooms and so does Pentax - ok. Everyone else has Nikon and Canon, they're know brands so why go with Pentax? Look at the lenses - ok, I can shift to primes with Canon and Nikon - people tell me that REAL photographers use primes - for around $150 all inclusive to try them out. But hey, Pentax has primes too - they're $400+ though to start out.....

Hmmm,
  1. known brands vs. unknown brand? Point to Canon and Nikon
  2. #s seem similar on the capability of the cameras. Wash.
  3. Prime lenses (for intro ones which is what new photographers look at ) cost $150ish for Nikon and Canon and $400+ for Pentax or $220 for the DA35/2.4 but its not a 50. Point to Nikon and Canon.
  4. What about availability of a range of lenses? Point to Canon and Nikon.
  5. What about warranty? 1 year in the US for Canon, Nikon and Pentax bodies - wash.
Totals-
Canon = 3 points
Nikon = 3 points
Pentax = 0 points

This doesn't even take into account the # and variety of non-OEM lenses and gear because that is not under the direct control of Canon, Nikon, or Pentax.

Wonder which a newbie will buy?
04-16-2012, 02:35 PM   #906
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Just got off the phone with what used to be the last Pentax dealer I knew of in Colorado. (Cameraworks in Colorado Springs) They do not currently stock new Pentax gear because of problems with distribution. (The fellow I talked to seemed to suggest this might be temporary, but did not say so directly.) Calling PentaxUSA, the fellow on the phone could not tell me /anywhere/ in the Denver Metro area that carries Pentax in brick and mortar stores where I can get my hands on one and try it. He gave vague suggestions of what has been hypothesized here, that Pentax would like to be in B&M stores but didn't have a timeframe for doing so. He suggested that in order to try the K-01, I buy one on their web store and return it if I don't like it in their mighty 30 day return policy. He further confirmed that Pentax's big focus of late has been online sales.

The punchline? PentaxUSA's headquarters is /in/ Denver.

So. What does this tell us? Pentax/Ricoh is changing their U.S. distribution model. The new pricing model seems to make Pentax much less attractive for online sales and much more attractive to brick and mortar stores.

It has been hypothesized in this thread that the current prices are to slow demand for the products while new products are designed/released, and this may be so, but I would hypothesize that it /also/ keeps their existing distribution model from running out of product, even though it's no longer being fed, while the new model is put into place. I would go further and hypothesize that it allows them to shake out their existing online distributors to discern between those who will obey the new pricing model, and those who won't. Those who won't aren't going to get new products, I wouldn't imagine.

I've hypothesized before that they're going to a more Apple-like model of distribution, where brick and mortar and online operate on parity for price, save that camera stores replace the company-owned Apple Stores, but provide similar service. I stand by this hypothesis even more now.

In the short term, it's a pain in the butt, because I still can't get my hands on a K-01 to test it with my manual focus lenses and my eyeballs. (If you know of a place in the Denver Metro area - anyplace between Ft. Collins and Colorado Springs is close enough - that has these cameras in stock, can you please PM me about it? Thanks.)

-JRS
04-16-2012, 02:42 PM   #907
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Wonder which a newbie will buy?
This isn't about the customers. It's about the retailers, which are EVERY BIT AS IMPORTANT as the customers.
04-16-2012, 02:46 PM   #908
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
This isn't about the customers. It's about the retailers, which are EVERY BIT AS IMPORTANT as the customers.
Right. I once told an a**h*** of a salesman that he was overhead and I was profit. Guess Pentax doesn't get it. Without customers I'm certain that the retailers will be pleased as punch with 100% profit margins on lens retail pricing.

04-16-2012, 02:52 PM   #909
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QuoteOriginally posted by AGWoodard Quote
Which does exactly WHAT for current users?

Nothing.

The ONLY one gaining here is Pentax/Richo.
In the short run, retailers win. There's nothing here that says that Pentax/Ricoh have raised their prices to retailers. No point in that, anyway.

In the long run, we may all win as more Pentax products appear in local shops that will truly sell rather than simply take orders, like Amazon. It's called consultative selling and it only works when the consultation rewards the consultant. As others have noted, Pentax may expand its market share if it has retailers that have a new incentive to discuss Pentax with prospective new customers. As of a few weeks ago, a good Pentax discussion in the shop leads only to an order through Amazon. Why bother?

Who gains if Amazon stays cheap? Well, we do for a while - the surviving Pentax clique, liking our Amazon pricing. But as we wear out, we see fewer new Pentax users as the shops don't see any point in introducing the inquisitive to Pentax. Then we start losing, too. We cannot ourselves survive as a small cult; we need local, educated sales staff to expand our user footprint.

Who else wins with Amazon pricing? Jeff Bezos. Given his 20% ownership in Amazon.com, he has only his pride and competitive nature at stake. I don't think he needs the money.
04-16-2012, 02:57 PM   #910
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I think the complaining is an over reaction. Having looked at corporate pricing policies over decades, i looks to me like they go in cycles. Eventually prices get so low
than no one can make any money so they won't both to sell them, then the manufacturrer lowers the boom and forces prices higher, but usually most of the price increase 'doesn't stick' and cracks in the wall of higher prices open....and pricing works its way down--- but hopefully slow enough that it builds some vendor
interest. My guess is that cracks will begin to show in the wall of higher prices in a few months....
04-16-2012, 03:01 PM   #911
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
In the short run, retailers win. There's nothing here that says that Pentax/Ricoh have raised their prices to retailers. No point in that, anyway.
How do retailers win? 10000000% profit on 0 sales is still $0. However, 5% profit on some sales = real $s in income.
04-16-2012, 04:26 PM   #912
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Right. I once told an a**h*** of a salesman that he was overhead and I was profit. Guess Pentax doesn't get it. Without customers I'm certain that the retailers will be pleased as punch with 100% profit margins on lens retail pricing.
Are you willfully not listening? This all goes away before end of summer.
04-16-2012, 04:36 PM   #913
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Are you willfully not listening? This all goes away before end of summer.
You ASSUME that I believe your analysis. That's just a bit egocentric, don't you think?
04-16-2012, 04:42 PM   #914
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
You ASSUME that I believe your analysis. That's just a bit egocentric, don't you think?
Well, since I'm correct it isn't egocentric at all. Ricoh isn't this stupid. And I'm not the only one with this analysis. I just post more.
04-16-2012, 04:54 PM   #915
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Originally posted by Docrwm Does Pentax have any major manufacturing in Japan? Lenses are assembled in Vietnam. Well, their corporate offices are still in Japan.

Most of the Pentax lens' are assembled in Vietnam, but not all of them. Also most of the camera bodies that are presently made by Pentax are assembed in the Phillipines.

Naturally there are exceptions to those above mentioned rules. I've already seen a K-01 outfit box that stated the lens was made in Japan. Anyone else come across this? As for the Pentax parts they are made all over the place; a very few in america, most in China and Vietnam, and some in Japan. And although Penta does have manufacturing facilities in Japan it is really unknown exactly what is made there.

Was also wondering where Pentax got their glass from on some of their higher end lens'?
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