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04-10-2012, 06:38 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by timh Quote
I've found virtually all Ricoh's camera decisions baffling in the past few years, so I'm afraid it does fit a pattern.

I'd quite like to see Samsung buy Pentax in a year or two...
While Samsung had the sensors, I think Pentax would have been gone by now.

04-10-2012, 06:39 AM   #32
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And now they have their own system to protect (developed while they were supposed to collaborate with Pentax, btw).
I don't see why people claim Samsung would be a better "master" than Ricoh. Nor that Pentax should be sold again.
04-10-2012, 09:30 AM   #33
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Sure, I know the previous experience with Samsung was not entirely positive but at least they are quite clearly very competent at business. The reason I mentioned it was that while Samsung have their own system, it's a mirrorless system - and a good one at that. This signifies that they're serious about the camera business now (perhaps they weren't before) but they have nothing at the high end enthusiast or pro level. They could take Pentax, ditch the silly stuff (compacts, Q, K-01) and invest massively in SLR (FF) the 645, and lenses, going after the big names and putting Pentax back in the running internationally.

Yes, it's unlikely and I'd if I had to bet I'd put money on it never happening. But Ricoh? Is Ricoh really a better alternative?
04-10-2012, 09:50 AM   #34
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Why would Samsung invest massively in Pentax? Why would they be interested in DSLRs, even more, in medium format? They weren't, when "collaborating" with Pentax. Why not putting their money into their own system, instead, as they already decided to do?
What changed, since then?

Yes, Ricoh is a better alternative - as we can be certain their intention is not to kill Pentax in order to promote their own brand/system.

04-10-2012, 12:22 PM   #35
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Maybe Hoya/Pentax was crappy to collaborate with? I don't have that kind of inside information. Sony manage to keep producing SLRs as well as mirrorless and a pile of nice compacts and just the electronics division of Samsung is bigger than Sony and much more profitable. I suppose I'd just like to see what Pentax can do in the hands of an owner with deep pockets, good business sense and a competitive spirit. I don't know what to make of Ricoh, their cameras are weird and unloved but perhaps their printers are great?
04-10-2012, 12:26 PM   #36
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Ricoh has deep pockets.

I think they also realize that their camera following wasn't all that great... note that it's now 'Pentax Ricoh' rather than 'Ricoh Pentax'. In addition as I recall the rumor was that the head-honchos at Pentax were 'getting their way' although who knows how true that is.
04-10-2012, 12:50 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Ricoh has deep pockets.

I think they also realize that their camera following wasn't all that great... note that it's now 'Pentax Ricoh' rather than 'Ricoh Pentax'. In addition as I recall the rumor was that the head-honchos at Pentax were 'getting their way' although who knows how true that is.
Ricoh is in better shape than some companies the past 2 years. However, they went through their financial challenges and down sized and restructured right before the Pentax purchase. The spent half of their loose cash at the time of the Pentax purchase on this purchase. Deep pockets can get a hole in them quickly given the world economy at present. Sony was in bad shape at the time of the purchase.
04-13-2012, 12:21 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
I spoke to SRS on Saturday about the lens price rise and they said it's basically because Pentax has raised their wholesale prices. Apparently this is to bring their prices in line with the other first party manufacturers. SRS are obviously concerned that this will impact lens sales but they said at the moment they don't have much choice because they have to maintain their own profit margins. Which is obviously completely understandable. SRS also said they've been resisting this rise for as long as they could.

SRS clearly don't know what will happen in the future but they told me they were hoping that the prices would settle down a little lower than they are now but this is only based on what happened after the last massive price hike.

I am just glad I got the 60-250mm before it went up by 200.
By "first party" [ ?? ] I assume you mean the two top brands, Canon and Nikon. If so this makes some sense as to may people price and quality are aligned ( "you get what you pay for" syndrome )

Indeed if a manufacturer sells too cheap it can be perceived as cheap.


I'm sure most Pentaxians would like Pentax to sit alongside Nikon and Canon so there's THREE big camera brands rather than TWO. If so then expect the prices to be similar.

Are you going to complain about the price if and when Pentax releases a Full Frame Pro DSLR which costs a a similar amount to a Nikon D4 or Canon EOS -1DX

04-17-2012, 12:25 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
By "first party" [ ?? ] I assume you mean the two top brands, Canon and Nikon. If so this makes some sense as to may people price and quality are aligned ( "you get what you pay for" syndrome )

Indeed if a manufacturer sells too cheap it can be perceived as cheap.


I'm sure most Pentaxians would like Pentax to sit alongside Nikon and Canon so there's THREE big camera brands rather than TWO. If so then expect the prices to be similar.

Are you going to complain about the price if and when Pentax releases a Full Frame Pro DSLR which costs a a similar amount to a Nikon D4 or Canon EOS -1DX
the problem is they may match the prices of those 2 examples, but Pentax would have to leapfrog at least one generation of DSLRs to be able to produce anything remotely similar to D4 or 1Dx.
If you think of it K-5 is just about on the level of 7D/D300s in terms of specs but newer generation. Problem is that it's moribund AF is no match for the big two. Add lenses in Pentax line up, there is no 24/28-70, 70/80-200, no 85, no fast 28 or 24, nothing FF capable wider than 31. The top three lenses of their "FF" line up at this point are FA ltds, and as great as they might be the AF of those three is PITA. DA*55 is FF capable but again, the AF is quite slow.
So if you dream of FF on the level of xD or EOS 1D level, you'll have to wait for a "while" they have too much work to do....

also, before the recent hike, Pentax wasn't cheap. DA*55 costs more than any other 50 out there with exception of Zeiss 50/1.4 and EF50L. Other DA* lenses were cheaper than Canikons but not by margin to be labeled cheap, and as far as DA ltds go, their current prices are a joke. There is no way 21 and 70 are worth 500 IMO

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04-17-2012, 12:37 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Ricoh is in better shape than some companies the past 2 years. However, they went through their financial challenges and down sized and restructured right before the Pentax purchase. The spent half of their loose cash at the time of the Pentax purchase on this purchase. Deep pockets can get a hole in them quickly given the world economy at present. Sony was in bad shape at the time of the purchase.
As I read it -- they spent about $110MM USD for Pentax and retain $2.1Bbn USD in cash a/o 03/31/2012. They have substantial cash on the books but indeed took substantial restructuring charges in the 3rd and 4th (Japanese) Fiscal Quarters ended 03/31. Their stock price (RICOY, ADR) declined 60% from the peak in March 2010 to early February this year.

The global business slowdown, exacerbated by the tsunami, Thailand flooding and European recession really hammered them - and now companies like mine are reducing copiers purchases and finally shifting to digital imagiing. I think the IKON Office Systems (Copier Distribution Division) assimilation/buy-in/purchase in 2008 did take half their cash, though.

Ricoh has cash and financial strength but Moody's just lowered their Credit Rating a notch to A and took them off Creditwatch - Negative. Rating should be stable now. The stock has moved up 20% since then.

They're nothing like as strong as they once were. In fact, the timing of the price change coordinates quite nicely with the new Fiscal Year.
04-17-2012, 12:45 PM   #41
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It seems to me, long term, that the copying/printing business is a bad business to be in. Perhaps Ricoh agrees and wants to be more on the imaging side, which of course justifies the acquisition of Pentax.
04-17-2012, 01:28 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
It seems to me, long term, that the copying/printing business is a bad business to be in. Perhaps Ricoh agrees and wants to be more on the imaging side, which of course justifies the acquisition of Pentax.
There were hints of new imaging systems, perhaps based on Pentax engineering. That might be a fine plan, with two avenues to support investment.
04-19-2012, 12:34 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
By "first party" [ ?? ] I assume you mean the two top brands, Canon and Nikon. If so this makes some sense as to may people price and quality are aligned ( "you get what you pay for" syndrome )

Indeed if a manufacturer sells too cheap it can be perceived as cheap.


I'm sure most Pentaxians would like Pentax to sit alongside Nikon and Canon so there's THREE big camera brands rather than TWO. If so then expect the prices to be similar.

Are you going to complain about the price if and when Pentax releases a Full Frame Pro DSLR which costs a a similar amount to a Nikon D4 or Canon EOS -1DX
Yep, by first party I meant any of Olympus, Sony, Nikon, Canon, etc. And I just want Pentax to be a healthy profit making company. I'm not concerned about their market share as a pure percentage, I just want them to be able to keep making cameras and lenses for years to come.

Regardng the price of a FF pro DSLR. I don't want Pentax to make a D4 or a 1DX I want them to make a K5 like camera with a FF sensor - which would still be expensive but not 3 or 4 thousand s. Pentax has the 645D line to compete with the ultra highend FFs.
04-19-2012, 08:40 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
Yep, by first party I meant any of Olympus, Sony, Nikon, Canon, etc. And I just want Pentax to be a healthy profit making company. I'm not concerned about their market share as a pure percentage, I just want them to be able to keep making cameras and lenses for years to come.

Regardng the price of a FF pro DSLR. I don't want Pentax to make a D4 or a 1DX I want them to make a K5 like camera with a FF sensor - which would still be expensive but not 3 or 4 thousand s. Pentax has the 645D line to compete with the ultra highend FFs.
I agree with you. I don't think Pentax needs to get into a big mass production war where they have to grow the number of units every year. They need to be profitable and sustainable over the long haul. Creating a specialty niche makes more sense.
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