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04-11-2012, 07:59 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
go to Pentax.eu. the UK site is part of the main site. The local arms will be driven by language issues and historical distribution and service but It looks like the eu probably has a main oversight (Falk could confirm though since he deals with them. certainly they work together to maintain the market)
Interesting as Pentax UK does events, has offices, has local repair facilities or contracts, etc. and appears from the outside to operate independently. I have read on these pages that there are a variety of repair centers in Europe with them in the UK, Germany, and at least one other location based on my recollections. There have been detailed debates here about the varying performance of those centers as well. How long are the warranties in UK, Germany, France, etc? Are they longer than the 1 year in the US? The Canadians get a longer warranty. Do the lengths of the warranties vary within the EU if they are more than 1 year? How many repair centers do we have here in the US? May we avail ourselves of the warranties in Canada or the repair facilities there?

It appears to me to be a simple fact that comparing Pentax in the UK and Europe to Pentax in the US is a joke. Those that do so are simply using a strawman argument to win by being illogical. We have inferior warranty support, inferior repair facilities, inferior infrastructure, and inferior CS generally and yet we now pay the same or more for our equipment?

04-11-2012, 08:23 AM   #137
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French warranty info ...

QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Interesting as Pentax UK does events, has offices, has local repair facilities or contracts, etc. and appears from the outside to operate independently. I have read on these pages that there are a variety of repair centers in Europe with them in the UK, Germany, and at least one other location based on my recollections. There have been detailed debates here about the varying performance of those centers as well. How long are the warranties in UK, Germany, France, etc? Are they longer than the 1 year in the US? The Canadians get a longer warranty. Do the lengths of the warranties vary within the EU if they are more than 1 year? How many repair centers do we have here in the US? May we avail ourselves of the warranties in Canada or the repair facilities there? ...
Bonjour Docrwm,

It's 2 years in France, and from what I understand, the first year is the manufacturer and the second is guaranteed by the EU retailer. See this on the Numipixel - Infos sur Garantie

"NUMIPIXEL vous garantit que tout les produits sélectionnés sont importés pour la Communauté Européenne dont la FRANCE. Les constructeurs garantissent leurs matériels 1 an. La législation Européenne oblige tout revendeur à garantir 2 ans (donc aujourd’hui, tout revendeur français doit donc garantir 2 ans, sinon il n’est pas en conformité avec la législation). Ordonnance n° 2005-136 du 17 février 2005, JORF n° 41 du 18 février 2005, p. 2778"

I have a FOUR year warranty for my K-5, and in France, the after-sale-service has been outsourced to "PM2S" in Trappes ... Contact Service après-vente Pentax - PENTAX Photo

Allez et salut, John le "Brown" Baudet du Poitou
04-11-2012, 08:24 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jean Poitiers Quote
Bonjour Docrwm,

It's 2 years in France, and from what I understand, the first year is the manufacturer and the second is guaranteed by the EU retailer. See this on the Numipixel - Infos sur Garantie

"NUMIPIXEL vous garantit que tout les produits sélectionnés sont importés pour la Communauté Européenne dont la FRANCE. Les constructeurs garantissent leurs matériels 1 an. La législation Européenne oblige tout revendeur à garantir 2 ans (donc aujourd’hui, tout revendeur français doit donc garantir 2 ans, sinon il n’est pas en conformité avec la législation). Ordonnance n° 2005-136 du 17 février 2005, JORF n° 41 du 18 février 2005, p. 2778"

I have a FOUR year warranty for my K-5 and in France, the after-sale-service in France has been outsourced to "PM2S" in Trappes ... Contact Service après-vente Pentax - PENTAX Photo

Allez et salut, John le "Brown" Baudet du Poitou
Merci!
04-11-2012, 08:37 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Bah, the big A series highways in Europe are far faster than your Texas backcountry dirt roads :
I've driven a Smart car on those highways being passed by 18 wheelers while i did 130 km/hr (70mph in American )
no issue.
A smart wouldn't be my first choice though too small for many things better as a city car for a couple. but a VW Jetta diesel is more than capable of good mileage and stability beside big trucks and in high winds
Out around Odessa, where the speed limit is 85mph, guys like to pull out their lawn chairs on the side of the Interstate in the late evening and watch 18 wheelers pass those teeny tiny little cars. When the little toy cars start spinning like a top, they place their bets on how long they will spin before another 18 wheeler comes along and turns them into a grease spot in the road. Great fun!

Best Regards!

04-11-2012, 08:47 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Out around Odessa, where the speed limit is 85mph, guys like to pull out their lawn chairs on the side of the Interstate in the late evening and watch 18 wheelers pass those teeny tiny little cars. When the little toy cars start spinning like a top, they place their bets on how long they will spin before another 18 wheeler comes along and turns them into a grease spot in the road. Great fun!

Best Regards!
Actually one of the safety stories on the smart car construction was an 18 wheeler cut in and caught the car in it's bumper. pushed it for a few clicks without realizing it. the driver walked away due to the design of the passenger compartment. wouldn't want that to happen in a Volt or fiesta

Clipped News: 'Smart' Car dragged by truck
04-11-2012, 08:48 AM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Interesting as Pentax UK does events, has offices, has local repair facilities or contracts, etc. and appears from the outside to operate independently. I have read on these pages that there are a variety of repair centers in Europe with them in the UK, Germany, and at least one other location based on my recollections. There have been detailed debates here about the varying performance of those centers as well. How long are the warranties in UK, Germany, France, etc? Are they longer than the 1 year in the US? The Canadians get a longer warranty. Do the lengths of the warranties vary within the EU if they are more than 1 year? How many repair centers do we have here in the US? May we avail ourselves of the warranties in Canada or the repair facilities there?

It appears to me to be a simple fact that comparing Pentax in the UK and Europe to Pentax in the US is a joke. Those that do so are simply using a strawman argument to win by being illogical. We have inferior warranty support, inferior repair facilities, inferior infrastructure, and inferior CS generally and yet we now pay the same or more for our equipment?
Until three weks ago We have had inferior warranty support, inferior repair facilities, inferior infrastructure, and inferior CS generally and yet but we now pay paid the same or more much less for our equipment?.

Pentax has encouraged dealers to raise thier prices to (or near) the MSRP, which they had previously signifcantly discounted. We can only hope there are more changes than just price changes coming, such as reversing all those former "inferiors." We proably won't see the resolution of that hope for a few months.
04-11-2012, 08:52 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Until three weks ago We have had inferior warranty support, inferior repair facilities, inferior infrastructure, and inferior CS generally and yet but we now pay paid the same or more much less for our equipment?.

Pentax has encouraged dealers to raise thier prices to (or near) the MSRP, which they had previously signifcantly discounted. We can only hope there are more changes than just price changes coming, such as reversing all those former "inferiors." We proably won't see the resolution of that hope for a few months.
I agree. However, which should come first - the fee rise or the services? I am, I believe, in the majority that believes raising prices without first improving services is the wrong way to go about things. It's not like they don't know how to do those things as evidenced by how Europe has had superior services and support all along.
04-11-2012, 08:59 AM   #143
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130 km/h = over 80 mph (130 x 0.621)

QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Bah, the big A series highways in Europe are far faster than your Texas backcountry dirt roads :
I've driven a Smart car on those highways being passed by 18 wheelers while i did 130 km/hr (70mph in American )
no issue.
A smart wouldn't be my first choice though too small for many things better as a city car for a couple. but a VW Jetta diesel is more than capable of good mileage and stability beside big trucks and in high winds
Bonjour,

You were only doing 130 ?!

Salut, John le "Brown" Baudet du Poitou

PS - In France the "18 wheelers" are limited to 90 km/h ... so you pass really easily, except when there are two or more "18"s trying to pass one another on a two lane highway, especially going uphill ... snail, snail, snail ... and it's even easier when you're at 160 km/h (= 100 mph)!

04-11-2012, 09:01 AM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Until three weks ago We have had inferior warranty support, inferior repair facilities, inferior infrastructure, and inferior CS generally and yet but we now pay paid the same or more much less for our equipment?.

Pentax has encouraged dealers to raise thier prices to (or near) the MSRP, which they had previously signifcantly discounted. We can only hope there are more changes than just price changes coming, such as reversing all those former "inferiors." We proably won't see the resolution of that hope for a few months.
I would not be surprised to see some changes in warranty, distribution, service all by year end. In fact I imagine they are working on those things now. Partially I blame Hoya for this scenario since they are the ones who killed a lot of the existing structure, Pentax US would have to bow to their will. If Ricoh is indeed serious about growth all these areas need addressing in the Us more than anywhere else. I'm guessing this is just the first Salvo. though it will be interesting to read what Ned says later this week i doubt it will be much more than bafflegab, the real announcements will come when they are in place and not before. If the plan is a line with more lenses and bodies as the rumour mill keeps saying then all these things need to be in place, so it's really a wait and see situation right now.
the way the market is headed a lot will have to change for the K mount to be around 5 years from now. with the massive improvements in cell phone camera tech it won't be long until a multi lens array cell phone exceeds apsc performance (Falks hypothesis not mine) competing on the entry level will mean being a phone manufacturer or an imaging company supplying the phone industry. SLR will more and more become a small pool of enthusiasts. so developing the higher end and support networks along with a FF line has to be a priority if the K mount is to survive the decade.
Photokina will probably be the best indication of the future since it will be the first big show where Ricoh has a huge hand in the products presented
04-11-2012, 09:05 AM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jean Poitiers Quote
Bonjour,

You were only doing 130 ?!

Salut, John le "Brown" Baudet du Poitou

PS - In France the "18 wheelers" are limited to 90 km/h ... so you pass really easily, except when there are two or more "18"s trying to pass one another on a two lane highway, especially going uphill ... snail, snail, snail ... and it's even easier when you're at 160 km/h (= 100 mph)!
it was a smart car. I hear they have gotten very strict on speed though since i last drove the A highways. I'll be on them headed for burgundy in September but in a car bigger than a smart.

My most vivid memory of how fast people drove in France was being in the middle lane doing 180 just cresting a hill on a corner. in the left lane I had a big Merc S and a BMW 7 series appear from nowhere and blast by me like i was standing still. I'm guessing in the 280 + range. Must have been the guys who kept telling me they could do Paris Marseilles in under 8 hours

Edit: as for the 18 wheelers i didn't really see many on the A series i think they like to avoid the tolls. Fine by me it meant the highway was fast and in better shape
04-11-2012, 09:30 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I agree. However, which should come first - the fee rise or the services? I am, I believe, in the majority that believes raising prices without first improving services is the wrong way to go about things. It's not like they don't know how to do those things as evidenced by how Europe has had superior services and support all along.
In the end I think we will see that this was (business metaphor) preparing the battlefiied. It is unclear whether it is we or the dealers who have been "prepared," though I suspect the price signals are really for the dealers. I say that because I still believe the real target of the price action is to destroy the incentive among (some) US dealers to use the gray market supply chain and then sell into the very markets they are buying product from wholesale. IOW, rebuilding the US dealer network and making the "inferiorities" competitive is a much longer-term goal than regaining final price control to protect the Canadian and European dealers and Australian Distributor from the (few abusive) US internet dealers.

I'm not sure Pentax can communicate what they are doing without risking violations under Colgate..
04-11-2012, 09:47 AM   #147
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How about naming those US dealers you claim using the Grey Market Supply Chain?

Are you accusing B&H? Adorama? Amazon? Hunts Photo? Best Buy? Who exactly are you saying is doing this or is it, pure conjecture?
04-11-2012, 09:50 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
In the end I think we will see that this was (business metaphor) preparing the battlefiied. It is unclear whether it is we or the dealers who have been "prepared," though I suspect the price signals are really for the dealers. I say that because I still believe the real target of the price action is to destroy the incentive among (some) US dealers to use the gray market supply chain and then sell into the very markets they are buying product from wholesale. IOW, rebuilding the US dealer network and making the "inferiorities" competitive is a much longer-term goal than regaining final price control to protect the Canadian and European dealers and Australian Distributor from the (few abusive) US internet dealers.

I'm not sure Pentax can communicate what they are doing without risking violations under Colgate..
I have not called for them to be more forthcoming in telling us their plans, merely expressed impatience. What I am irritated by is their reversal of the order in which things should be done in order not to alienate customers. How many retailers are in the network is irrelevant if you have alienated your customer base. Regardless of their long-term plans increasing their prices in such a drastic fashion without ANY improvement in the product offered the consumer is definitely bad business and is indefensible IMHO.
04-11-2012, 09:51 AM   #149
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Good point ...

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
In the end I think we will see that this was (business metaphor) preparing the battlefiied. It is unclear whether it is we or the dealers who have been "prepared," though I suspect the price signals are really for the dealers. I say that because I still believe the real target of the price action is to destroy the incentive among (some) US dealers to use the gray market supply chain and then sell into the very markets they are buying product from wholesale. IOW, rebuilding the US dealer network and making the "inferiorities" competitive is a much longer-term goal than regaining final price control to protect the Canadian and European dealers and Australian Distributor from the (few abusive) US internet dealers.

I'm not sure Pentax can communicate what they are doing without risking violations under Colgate..
Bonjour monochrome,

Sounds more than reasonable to me ... but there's still a lot of "distortion" between (some) lens prices in France versus the States ... trust me, because I'm always comparing between here and there ... it's a bad habit. And LBA is to blame.

Salut et A+, John le "Brown" Baudet du Poitou
04-11-2012, 09:54 AM   #150
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Agreed ...

QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I have not called for them to be more forthcoming in telling us their plans, merely expressed impatience. What I am irritated by is their reversal of the order in which things should be done in order not to alienate customers. How many retailers are in the network is irrelevant if you have alienated your customer base. Regardless of their long-term plans increasing their prices in such a drastic fashion without ANY improvement in the product offered the consumer is definitely bad business and is indefensible IMHO.
100% correct IMHO ... J
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