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04-15-2012, 12:34 AM   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Well, wait a minute here... You can't have a "personal blog, identifiable by real name" or you can't blog about your industry or employer? Two very different things, and I'm fairly certain any companies that try to restrict the former will find themselves on the wrong side of the law if it ever gets pushed.
Indeed, I also believe not being able to have a personal blog at all, no participation on a forum related to your hobby, not even to buy/sell things - while, of course, not spilling out any of the company's secrets - is insane. They should realize they're hiring you, not buying slaves.
I'm talking in a much more general sense here, not about monochrome. I'd guess some individuals would gladly become slaves if enough compensation (material but not only) is provided. Maybe even myself.
But with a "normal" job, in a "normal" industry? Yeah, right.

QuoteOriginally posted by NZ_Ross Quote
Looking in from NZ, where we already get badly stung for cameras and lenses (and hence don't have the passion about the recent changes) I would observe that you should consider yourselves fortunate that a senior executive of Pentax has taken the time to blog, and let you know he is considering / listing the concerns raised. He seems a reasonable bloke, with a genuine concern for his user community.

I would also observe that threads like this where there has been a bit of kicking going on are not really going to help improve the communication with Pentax USA or Japan, nor improve Neds likely desire to continue any communication with this user community.
Bingo.
Someone who couldn't care less about photography (but, let's say, accounting) and more important, about the customers, probably wouldn't be better.

04-15-2012, 02:30 AM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by NZ_Ross Quote
.......
Looking in from NZ, where we already get badly stung for cameras and lenses (and hence don't have the passion about the recent changes)......
Badly stung alright, for years...
I have some passion..... for enjoying all the wailing and gnashing
Pete
04-15-2012, 05:41 AM   #258
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
You do understand that every respondent I cited is subject to some explicit law, some Federal regulatory body's explicit rule-making or some experience with an explicit Court-adjudicated legal settlement, right?

This isn't in China, or the Soviet Union in 1980 - it is in America and it is today and it is very, very real.
I simply find any restriction on the speech of a tenured faculty member hard to believe. Most of my former colleagues and I are in routine contact via many of those fora you say they can't use.
04-15-2012, 08:25 AM   #259
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Pentax lens increase, need advice on alternate source for med to long zoom...Thanks!

QuoteOriginally posted by Kryscendo Quote
The K-5 is an excellent camera and does things differently unlike the other guys, namely that in body stabilization which means any lens you put on the camera will have image stabilization. This means higher quality lenses, smaller lenses, and increased reliability since it is one less thing to break down on you. The biggest advantage is that old film lenses which are amazing for their aesthetic qualities and their immense value become even better than they were before.

The reason I am bringing this up because at my photography school, there is a student who shoots with the K-x and has the old school screw mount and M42 lenses and he has some of the best pictures in class.
Thanks for response... I do love the camera, just significantly annoyed that I didn't' make my purchases prior to these huge increases. Prices may settle down, but I would have to wait which makes it even more aggravating, with no guarantee of a better outcome.

In the meantime, can anyone suggest a good medium to long zoom at less than $1K? Tamron or Sigma glass better?

04-15-2012, 09:26 AM   #260
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Depends brightness, quality and budget.
DA55-300 is known for being a very good value.
Both Sigma and Tammy 70-200/2.8 are nice.
04-15-2012, 10:33 AM   #261
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Zoom choice

Thibs,
That's the 3 choices I've been considering. I like hiking trails with good lighting(not early morning or dusk), and enjoy capturing wildlife photos. I've read there is not a great deal of difference between 200mm and 300mm so I figure the 2.8 Tamron or Sigma might be better choice. Good price point on Pentax, though....

What about the Tammy 28-300? Not the sharpest I imagine, but compared to Pentax 55-300mm?

Thanks for all of the valuable input!
04-15-2012, 10:40 AM   #262
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I have the 55-300 and the 70-200. I've tried the sigma 70-200 briefly.

I wouldn't get the sigma, personally, and I didn't. The tamron was better optically, lighter, cheaper, and a pretty good macro-ish lens. It was louder when focusing, though.

There is a difference between 70-200 and 55-300... but when you want 200 mm, generally 300 isn't enough either. It's a tradeoff:

70-200:
better optically between 70-200
more DOF control
quicker shutter speeds available (nice for birds,etc sometimes)
better macro


55-300
cheaper
much lighter
much smaller
better from 250 or so to 300+mm (kinda guessing here, never directly compared, but it takes a REALLY crappy 300 for a 200mm to beat it at 300. You could go to photozone and take the numbers from the 55-300 and multiply them by 1.5 to compare qualitatively to a 70-200 cropped to 300mm).
04-15-2012, 11:42 AM   #263
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The 28-300 really has a bad reputation. Wasn't even designed for APS-C for what I know. 18-250 would be better (and really, not ideal at all at 135+).
ElJamoquio nails it pretty well IMO.

In normal times, I'd say the 60-250 would be best but... in the US it is now way too expensive. For what I read, it is an excellent lens though, better optically than both Sigma/Tammy but f/4 instead of f/2.8

04-15-2012, 12:19 PM   #264
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QuoteOriginally posted by NZ_Ross Quote
Regarding Ned,

I have been subscribed to this thread since the beginning and have noted all the comments - mainly because I was communicating with Transit about another matter (since moved to PM) on this tread.

As a result I have received all the update emails and comments.

I am sure that is has been a lot of fun for everyone, and good for you to vent your frustrations at Pentax and Ned.

Looking in from NZ, where we already get badly stung for cameras and lenses (and hence don't have the passion about the recent changes) I would observe that you should consider yourselves fortunate that a senior executive of Pentax has taken the time to blog, and let you know he is considering / listing the concerns raised. He seems a reasonable bloke, with a genuine concern for his user community.

I would also observe that threads like this where there has been a bit of kicking going on are not really going to help improve the communication with Pentax USA or Japan, nor improve Neds likely desire to continue any communication with this user community.

You should all think about that.

My observation of life is that graciousness and good manners go a long way in helping good communication and improving results.

(ready to be flamed )

Ross
I didn't say anything bad about him until a week had passed and his pledge to speak to the customers by early last week because the relationship is "important" had gone unanswered. Sorry. You shouldn't say you care about the relationship with your customers and talk about addressing a list of issues and then do nothing. At least an update would have been better than nothing like saying hey "pentax japan has told me to be quiet on this matter." Something. That's piss poor customer relations, especially in the wake of doubling the prices on lenses that throw them squarely into the ludicrous category.
04-15-2012, 02:27 PM   #265
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PPCR - PissPoorCustomerRelations

QuoteOriginally posted by zosxavius Quote
I didn't say anything bad about him until a week had passed and his pledge to speak to the customers by early last week because the relationship is "important" had gone unanswered. Sorry. You shouldn't say you care about the relationship with your customers and talk about addressing a list of issues and then do nothing. At least an update would have been better than nothing like saying hey "pentax japan has told me to be quiet on this matter." Something. That's piss poor customer relations, especially in the wake of doubling the prices on lenses that throw them squarely into the ludicrous category.
Bonjour,

Agreed and I may have been a bit "mean" at times here lately, but then again Ned made himself a target. And excuse me for thinking this, but he's the "CEO" (or whatever) of the States, and he gets paid to take this position's inherent problems and "heat" ... and Monochrome is right in what he wrote ... one cannot be your "buddy photag blogging dude" on one side of the fence and the head of a business division on the other side of the same fence. Plus do this in a "conflict of interest" scenario (Pentax & Lecia?) which just baffles me ...

What's that old saying, "If you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen ..." ? Well, IMHO and from what I've read, Ned was only a half-timer in the Pentax kitchen while at the rest of time cooking up goodies for Lecia ("caviar, anyone?") ... and he just recently managed to throw a match into a boiling grease cauldron of simply unjustifiable price increases that somehow then mysteriously explodes in his face ... obviously due to his own self-entrapping blog words and his lack of a later follow-up and/or explanation in the same blog ... or as the CEO ... or as whatever ... hard to feel sorry for someone under these self-inflicted wounds scenario.

Oops, looks like I'm being "mean" again ... but, I do not feel like I owe Ned anything ... He owes us, the Pentax User Community, some explanations and that's part of what he gets paid for, isn't it ?! Enough said and no need to get too riled up this late in the evening.

Salut et faites des beaux rÍves, J Frog
04-15-2012, 03:31 PM   #266
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Indeed, I also believe not being able to have a personal blog at all, no participation on a forum related to your hobby, not even to buy/sell things - while, of course, not spilling out any of the company's secrets - is insane. They should realize they're hiring you, not buying slaves.
I'm talking in a much more general sense here, not about monochrome. I'd guess some individuals would gladly become slaves if enough compensation (material but not only) is provided. Maybe even myself.
But with a "normal" job, in a "normal" industry? Yeah, right.
As I have stated, some of the respondents are more closely supervised and regulated than others. The point is we all have some kind of restriction on our personal blogging written into our employment conditions.

I am not permitted to comment on our industry or on the products we sell without individual, concurrent and full review by a corporate legal officer, by Federal Regulation, on any internet Forum, by mail or by email, whether personally identifiable or anonymous, to ensure that Federally-defined language and specific words are not used in our postings, letters or emails, personal or corporate. We are not permitted to have social network accounts that include the name of our employer, and our social network accounts are regularly reviewed by legal officers to ensure we don't. Every single communication I have ever made in the course of my business, and the record of all telephone calls, must be deliverable to Federal regulatory authorities on demand. There are several hundred thousand people in the United States subject to these regulations.

You might think this is a country of Free Speech, but your Senators and Representatives passed the legislation that established this regulatory environment and your President signed it, and they like it that way.

While we're at it, I must request permission in advance to make all political contributions, some of which are prohibited by regulation.

Others of us are prohibited by state law from establishing personal contact with certain members of social network sites (by state law, teachers may not friend or message a student). Teacher blogs are open to review in regular employment review, by state law. Violation can result in dismissal, fines, permanent bar from employment in their industry and incarceration.

The rest of us are strongly discouraged from blogging about our employers and industry due to the risk of just the kind of thing currently going on here with Ned's blog. That kind of public communication is best left to trained public communication officers.

I'm not making this up - these are real regulations and violating them subjects me to dismissal, fines and permanent bar from employment in my industry.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Bingo.
Someone who couldn't care less about photography (but, let's say, accounting) and more important, about the customers, probably wouldn't be better.
Corporate executives should not blog for nor about the company without professional communication officer assistance since any such blogging puts the company at reputational risk, just as is happening now.

QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I simply find any restriction on the speech of a tenured faculty member hard to believe. Most of my former colleagues and I are in routine contact via many of those fora you say they can't use.
The tenured faculty members in our group can blog all they want but don't bring their employer into disfavor or take extreme positions both by choice and under general behavior clauses in their employment contracts.

They are subject to restrictions, not prohibitions, on direct contact through social network sites (and other personal media) with persons they directly supervise and students who are actively under their instruction. These restrictions and the language in which they are written, were approved by the Faculty Senate. Further, there are emerging Federal regulations regarding harassing language in any communication on college campuses among and between faculty with each other, faculty with students and students with students. Since harassing language is not definable except in the mind of the harassed, once these regulations must be implemented on college campuses the easiest way to administer them is simple prohibition.

That's what happened in my industry.

Welcome, Big Brother.

Last edited by monochrome; 04-15-2012 at 03:56 PM.
04-15-2012, 03:45 PM   #267
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So it's been a week now..

What with the Uk price increase as well as the US one I'm starting to get slightly dissolutioned.

Photokina better had be good or I will be sincerely miffed.
04-15-2012, 03:50 PM   #268
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QuoteOriginally posted by parsons Quote
So it's been a week now..

What with the Uk price increase as well as the US one I'm starting to get slightly dissolutioned.

Photokina better had be good or I will be sincerely miffed.
You just proved my point while I was typing an edit.
04-15-2012, 04:22 PM   #269
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I'm not getting this......why are you guys surprised that Ned is a no show? During the Great K5 sensor crisis, when it looked like a total meltdown, Ned was busy cultivating his prize winning tomatoes and apparently had no time to get involved with a silly little sensor stain ...remember? Maybe if it had concerned his Leica, he would have dropped his gardening tools...but it wasn't, was it?

If for some wild eyed and bizarre reason, some of you think old Ned is just "one of the guys".......wake up and join the real world...the one where you type out your thoughts....and Ned doesn't.
Regards!
04-15-2012, 04:39 PM   #270
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
. . .
The tenured faculty members in our group can blog all they want but don't bring their employer into disfavor or take extreme positions both by choice and under general behavior clauses in their employment contracts.

They are subject to restrictions, not prohibitions, on direct contact through social network sites (and other personal media) with persons they directly supervise and students who are actively under their instruction. These restrictions and the language in which they are written, were approved by the Faculty Senate. Further, there are emerging Federal regulations regarding harassing language in any communication on college campuses among and between faculty with each other, faculty with students and students with students. Since harassing language is not definable except in the mind of the harassed, once these regulations must be implemented on college campuses the easiest way to administer them is simple prohibition.

That's what happened in my industry.

Welcome, Big Brother.
That is the university system in Missouri and their university then. It is unusual that the faculty senate would be that restrictive to faculty. However, our faculty senate frowns on administrators getting elected to the faculty senate. We look at it as a conflict of interest. The President of our faculty senate is automatically a member of the Board of Trustees. As far as our communications with the world go, we are held to ethical and legal standards like we are at all times. The State University System in Florida is overseen by the Board of Governors.

QuoteQuote:
The Board of Governors, as the legally constituted agency for policy making and supervision of the State Universities, believes that academic freedom and responsibility are essential to the full development of a true university and apply to teaching, research, and creativity. In the development of knowledge, research endeavors, and creative activities, a university faculty and student body must be free to cultivate a spirit of inquiry and scholarly criticism and to examine ideas in an atmosphere of freedom and confidence. A similar atmosphere is required for university teaching. Consistent with the exercise of academic responsibility, a teacher must have freedom in the classroom in discussing his/her subject. The university student must likewise have the opportunity to study a full spectrum of ideas, opinions, and beliefs, so that he/she may acquire maturity for analysis and judgment. Objective and skillful exposition of such matters is the duty of every teacher.
The established policy of the Board of Governors shall continue to be that the faculty member must fulfill his/her responsibility to society and to his profession by manifesting academic competence, scholarly discretion, and good citizenship. The university teacher is a citizen, a member of a learned profession, and an academic officer of an educational institution. He/she should be constantly mindful that these roles may be inseparable in the public view, and he/she should, therefore, at all times exercise appropriate restraint and good judgment.
Nowhere do I see constraints on social media at the two Universities at which I hold faculty status.

This comes into play regardless: He/she should be constantly mindful that these roles may be inseparable in the public view, and he/she should, therefore, at all times exercise appropriate restraint and good judgment.
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