Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-07-2012, 09:14 AM   #31
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,212
QuoteOriginally posted by baldeagle21b Quote
Based on prior experience of a couple of years ago on this and other forums, Carlson and Ned know better than to try to hold an intelligent dialog with the forum members.
They were run off by the self-righteous Class A jerks that infest the forums, so you won't see them try that again.
Yet, they hang out over at DipReview. OhNo

QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Well, I'm certain that even if Ned tried anything useful he'd be welcomed with something like:
'Hey Leica's nerd, still working for Pentax?' or anything as smart...

Wonder why he doesn't try, really, can't get it...
You have to look at the overall state of pentax marketing and distribution in the U.S.A. to get it. We have 40 states bigger than Belgium or Germany but you guys have just as big a Pentax system. So think of it as "Nero fiddles while Rome Burns" sort of situation. Most of us like Ned, but that's not the point.


Last edited by Blue; 04-07-2012 at 09:20 AM.
04-07-2012, 09:17 AM   #32
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,212
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Our concerns:

1. Why is there both a gold band and a green band on some lenses? Doesn't that clash?

2. Why doesn't Pentax remove the WR from the lenses that have it? It'll serve our purposes better, just think how much lighter those lenses will be! We should pay more for the lighter lenses, too, it's only fair.

3. Why doesn't Pentax start putting 4/3 sensors in their cameras? APS-C is really too big for us.

4. Why was the last price increase so small? We would really feel more pro if we were paying MORE than Canon and Nikon for their 'pro' level lenses. Think how stupid the Canon/Nikon pros would feel if their lenses cost half as much as Pentax's! They'd think that bad SDM and slower/APS-C lenses were the wave of the future and would come to Pentax in droves.
I would rather ask "But where's the rum?" Rum of course is a euphemism for full frame.
04-07-2012, 09:49 AM - 1 Like   #33
Loyal Site Supporter
bwDraco's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,015
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Our concerns:

1. Why is there both a gold band and a green band on some lenses? Doesn't that clash?

2. Why doesn't Pentax remove the WR from the lenses that have it? It'll serve our purposes better, just think how much lighter those lenses will be! We should pay more for the lighter lenses, too, it's only fair.

3. Why doesn't Pentax start putting 4/3 sensors in their cameras? APS-C is really too big for us.

4. Why was the last price increase so small? We would really feel more pro if we were paying MORE than Canon and Nikon for their 'pro' level lenses. Think how stupid the Canon/Nikon pros would feel if their lenses cost half as much as Pentax's! They'd think that bad SDM and slower/APS-C lenses were the wave of the future and would come to Pentax in droves.
I don't buy into the irony, let's not be oppositional here. Ned is trying to be honest, and while there are corporate obligations, he does see that there are concerns from the PENTAX community that the unilateral pricing policy has resulted in prices that are too high. At a minimum, we need to say that he's trying.

Please stop assuming that this blog post was in bad faith. There are people on this forum that are just too argumentative.

--DragonLord
04-07-2012, 09:52 AM   #34
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,336
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Our concerns:

1. Why is there both a gold band and a green band on some lenses? Doesn't that clash?

2. Why doesn't Pentax remove the WR from the lenses that have it? It'll serve our purposes better, just think how much lighter those lenses will be! We should pay more for the lighter lenses, too, it's only fair.

3. Why doesn't Pentax start putting 4/3 sensors in their cameras? APS-C is really too big for us.

4. Why was the last price increase so small? We would really feel more pro if we were paying MORE than Canon and Nikon for their 'pro' level lenses. Think how stupid the Canon/Nikon pros would feel if their lenses cost half as much as Pentax's! They'd think that bad SDM and slower/APS-C lenses were the wave of the future and would come to Pentax in droves.
Yeah... it already begun.

04-07-2012, 10:18 AM - 1 Like   #35
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,352
QuoteQuote:
=monochrome;1899981 My company, for instance, doesn't permit us to have Facebook or Linked-In accounts at all. A personal blog must be registered and emails sent to managers for each entry
Wow! And you're OK being a 21st C slave?

I had one CEO that tried that on. I told him I was born free, and would remain that way; he wasn't having my signature on the one-sided contract. He had a tantrum, I changed the contract to something fair (that all parts of my life on this planet had a requirement of me being FREE).

Why is it that so many people pretend to be open-minded and strong, but are just sheeple when it really comes to the crunch?
04-07-2012, 10:47 AM - 2 Likes   #36
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,243
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If I were Ned or John I wouldn't openly post here again, either. In an open Forum one is exposed to all manner of classless, unrestrained people. Yet often the kernel of a classless post has some truth to it, more the damning if expressed politely.

No one questions Ned's desire to shoot Leica. Many people here own and shoot them. Many more would if they could afford one.

What we question is the wisdom of the CEO of a division of a global consumer products company praising a product manufactured by a (admittedly distant price-wise) competitor. Should Alan Mulaly (CEO of Ford) blog about a Ferrari?

Ned occupies a privileged position - there can be only one CEO of Pentax USA. It is unfortunate that sometimes with privilege comes some sacrifice of absolute freedom - in this case the freedom to blog as one sees fit personally. My company, for instance, doesn't permit us to have Facebook or Linked-In accounts at all. A personal blog must be registered and emails sent to managers for each entry.

It is also unfortunate that people in positions of privilege are judged for their apparent results by persons who, if in the same position, likely couldn't manage as well under the circumstances. But results are as results are. If you get them, lesser people can bitch all they want and you just point to your results. If you don't get them, where do you point?
The problem for Ned and John Carlson is that basically they have no authority to effect any changes, however wonderful they might be, and whether it would make sense to begin work on a specific lens, fix some feature or update a camera's firmware in a particular way, they just cannot do it. All they can do is forward issues to Pentax Japan, who will respond in whatever manner and at whatever speed they so desire. In addition, they can't vary from the company line when posting, and so they might just as well be the robots that Class A complained about on the Pentax Website. Postings like "We are working on a firmware update," "There don't seem to be significant issues with SDM motors," and similar type responses do little to assuage the anger/frustration/inherent irritability of the forum audience. With friends like these, who needs enemies.
04-07-2012, 10:58 AM   #37
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,352
The real problem is that nothing seems to have changed in my experience since the early 90's (when I first had exposure to troubled sales channels). I'm sure it goes back millennia. Downward spiral of success, lowered ambition, no power, no sales.

Pentax USA are a castrated dwarf. Harsh, but true. Hope it changes.
04-07-2012, 11:12 AM   #38
Site Supporter
Jean Poitiers's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lost in translation ...
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 16,545
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The problem for Ned and John Carlson is that basically they have no authority to effect any changes, however wonderful they might be, and whether it would make sense to begin work on a specific lens, fix some feature or update a camera's firmware in a particular way, they just cannot do it. All they can do is forward issues to Pentax Japan, who will respond in whatever manner and at whatever speed they so desire. In addition, they can't vary from the company line when posting, and so they might just as well be the robots that Class A complained about on the Pentax Website. Postings like "We are working on a firmware update," "There don't seem to be significant issues with SDM motors," and similar type responses do little to assuage the anger/frustration/inherent irritability of the forum audience. With friends like these, who needs enemies.
Bonjour Rondec,

Agreed from what I have read over the past year here on this forum ... and my point as well.

SVP, Ned and John C, quit with these "poor" postings that only seem to blow "more hot air" on smoldering embers of frustration which are so evident upon this forum ... Write something which answers our informational needs and/or questions which are well recognizable ... Please post something signicant or just say nothing ... and leave us to ourselves ... Merci.

Bien respectueusement, J Frog


04-07-2012, 11:16 AM   #39
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,430
QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
Wow! And you're OK being a 21st C slave?

I had one CEO that tried that on. I told him I was born free, and would remain that way; he wasn't having my signature on the one-sided contract. He had a tantrum, I changed the contract to something fair (that all parts of my life on this planet had a requirement of me being FREE).

Why is it that so many people pretend to be open-minded and strong, but are just sheeple when it really comes to the crunch?
My attorney negotiated my employment contract with their attorney. We accepted that condition because it isn't important to me (but we bargained like hell with it).

I'm perfectly free to do what I do for any company in my industry. Freedom doesn't mean I get my way in all things at all times. It means I have the freedom to choose what conditions I accept, just as the company has the freedom to choose, what conditions it demands.

I have the unquestioned right to work, not the unquestioned right to work for my company under my terms. Were I forced to work for my company, under their terms, with no alternative sources of emplyment then I would, indeed, be enslaved.

Same applies to Pentax - we're not obligated to buy their stuff nor pay these prices. We can use what we already have, sell all our stuff and buy other stuff, get a different hobby or just log on to a website and piss and moan to our hearts' contents. Pentax is free to raise their prices to whatever level the think best, as long as they are willing to accept the outcome of that decision. If they dipped into our PayPal accounts and sent us a 60~250 at the current price, demanding we take it, then we're enslaved.

And now I think I'll step through the door on the right and let the younger man continue this rebellion. Adio's, muchachos!
04-07-2012, 11:41 AM   #40
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
I don't buy into the irony, let's not be oppositional here. Ned is trying to be honest, and while there are corporate obligations, he does see that there are concerns from the PENTAX community that the unilateral pricing policy has resulted in prices that are too high. At a minimum, we need to say that he's trying.

Please stop assuming that this blog post was in bad faith. There are people on this forum that are just too argumentative.

--DragonLord
I don't think that his post was in bad faith.

I think that placing equivalent importance between the relationship with retailers and the relationship with customers is a bad decision and will hurt a brand that I'm heavily invested in.

I think that saying he needs to 'develop a list of the top conerns you've voiced' is an almost comically poor choice of words. He should've said something along the lines of: 'I've seen and heard your concerns and I understand them. It is never our intent to cause our customers anxiety. We are considering those concerns and working on a response that we will give you next week'. Actually I think that response would've given us too much hope, but whatever, I spent 20 seconds on it and I'm not the CEO of Pentax USA.

It's like he doesn't proofread his posts or something.
04-07-2012, 11:45 AM   #41
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
My attorney negotiated my employment contract with their attorney. We accepted that condition because it isn't important to me (but we bargained like hell with it).
I don't see a problem with - in fact I think it's appropriate - for an employer to have some modicum of agreement with you for your internet-presence as the face of your company.

In other words, if you're talking about your company and it's products, your employer should at least be able allowed to see what you're writing, approve/deny approval for it, etc. You shouldn't be allowed to badmouth your products or lie about your competitors products, etc.

If however you're talking about your last trip with your family on your blog, and they want to review it before you post it, you're working for the wrong employer, because they don't have a grasp on what's important and what isn't.
04-07-2012, 11:58 AM   #42
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,430
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I don't think that his post was in bad faith.

I think that placing equivalent importance between the relationship with retailers and the relationship with customers is a bad decision and will hurt a brand that I'm heavily invested in.
When you really only have a dozen or so meaningful customers in the USA market you necessarily favor the needs of the retailers over that of the end buyers. Lose a retailer and you lose the end buyers anyway.

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I think that saying he needs to 'develop a list of the top conerns you've voiced' is an almost comically poor choice of words. He should've said something along the lines of: 'I've seen and heard your concerns and I understand them. It is never our intent to cause our customers anxiety. We are considering those concerns and working on a response that we will give you next week'. Actually I think that response would've given us too much hope, but whatever, I spent 20 seconds on it and I'm not the CEO of Pentax USA.
This is what happens when A) you outsource your public relations on a limited-service contract - you can't ask for help with the proper language, and B) you mix an individual persona (on a personal blog, no less) with a Corporate Office. Ned is trying to be a nice person to us and respond to a nice act by Adorama. The CEO of Pentax Ricoh Imaging Company, Ltd. cannot do that without either lieing to us or violating corporate policies and revealing corporate plans.

This is what PR drones are for in the first place - to say nothing, nicely and/or to.say something, professionally.

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
It's like he doesn't proofread his posts or something.
He probably does proofread his posts - but he is necessarily out of touch with us. CEO's have to be out of touch with end-customers. Otherwise they couldn't ever make a corporate decision. This isn't his job and he shouldn't be attempting it. CEO's should only be public figures when there is a corporate tragedy such as a plane crash He's not professionally trained to do it and the best he can hope for is he only makes a small hash of it. Worst case he just deepens the already serious anger and alienates more people.
04-07-2012, 12:10 PM   #43
Site Supporter
Jean Poitiers's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lost in translation ...
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 16,545
Agreed ...

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I don't think that his post was in bad faith.

I think that placing equivalent importance between the relationship with retailers and the relationship with customers is a bad decision and will hurt a brand that I'm heavily invested in.

I think that saying he needs to 'develop a list of the top concerns you've voiced' is an almost comically poor choice of words. He should've said something along the lines of: 'I've seen and heard your concerns and I understand them. It is never our intent to cause our customers anxiety. We are considering those concerns and working on a response that we will give you next week'. Actually I think that response would've given us too much hope, but whatever, I spent 20 seconds on it and I'm not the CEO of Pentax USA.

It's like he doesn't proofread his posts or something.
Bonjour ElJamoquio,

" ... or something" ... that's scary.

Thousands of Pentax users are watching carefully very act and/or statement because from his status as the CEO, or whatever, of Pentax USA ... it's normal and to be expected, especially in the fast-paced Internet age and most certainly after the Ricoh acquisition ...

At least in Europe, the Pentax management seems to be able to not repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot ... they seem to keep a rather tight lip. Wonder why?

A+, J
04-07-2012, 12:47 PM   #44
Veteran Member
Docrwm's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Somewhere in the Southern US
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 11,275
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
When you really only have a dozen or so meaningful customers in the USA market you necessarily favor the needs of the retailers over that of the end buyers. Lose a retailer and you lose the end buyers anyway.


This is what happens when A) you outsource your public relations on a limited-service contract - you can't ask for help with the proper language, and B) you mix an individual persona (on a personal blog, no less) with a Corporate Office. Ned is trying to be a nice person to us and respond to a nice act by Adorama. The CEO of Pentax Ricoh Imaging Company, Ltd. cannot do that without either lieing to us or violating corporate policies and revealing corporate plans.

This is what PR drones are for in the first place - to say nothing, nicely and/or to.say something, professionally.

He probably does proofread his posts - but he is necessarily out of touch with us. CEO's have to be out of touch with end-customers. Otherwise they couldn't ever make a corporate decision. This isn't his job and he shouldn't be attempting it. CEO's should only be public figures when there is a corporate tragedy such as a plane crash He's not professionally trained to do it and the best he can hope for is he only makes a small hash of it. Worst case he just deepens the already serious anger and alienates more people.
Excuse me but doesn't PRIC have a head PR honco in John Carlson? Ok, VP Marketing. If responding in a positive, coherent and upbeat manner to reassure your customers without spilling the internal secrets is beyond the skills of most folks at PRIC then why not hand it off to John Carlson?
04-07-2012, 12:47 PM   #45
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,263
Because they dunno Internet exists? xD
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
adorama, easter, holiday, pentax news, pentax rumors, time
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How do you think about the lens price increase? Matcha Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 330 04-20-2012 09:06 AM
No lens price increase seen in France ... (?) Jean Poitiers Pentax News and Rumors 49 04-14-2012 02:27 PM
Pentax Accessories Price Increase Kenn100D Pentax News and Rumors 10 08-12-2011 09:21 AM
WooWhoo -- Pentax Canada Price Drops :D :D and one price increase Jack Simpson Pentax News and Rumors 45 05-06-2009 10:10 PM
A Response Letter from Pentax; Price Increase. ajuett Pentax News and Rumors 19 04-06-2009 07:18 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:01 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top