Dubai and the NDA

Marcus · 01-14-2008, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by GaryML

I'll attempt a real answer:

It makes no difference whatsoever if Canon or Nikon learn about the details of the Pentax January 24th announcement a few weeks earlier. None at all. Nada. Zip. Of course, it would be helpful to learn of a competitor's product in development that might be released in six months or a year, so you could design a competing product. But a few weeks means nothing.

The concern of Pentax is to control the product launch with their presentation coordinated with advertising, the industry show (PMA), dealer promotions, or whatever else they have planned. It's all about their marketing and controlling the market introduction. I base this opinion on case studies such as Apple's vigorous prosecution of NDA violations before certain product introductions. Apple doesn't want anybody undermining the big product launches at Macworld by Steve Jobs. It's the same thing with Pentax. They have a show planned and they don't want it spoiled. They think (rightly or wrongly) that the product introduction will be more successful if it is a surprise.

Pentax is small potatoes, and the Big Boys (Canon and Nikon) are more worried about consumer electronics giants like Sony, Panasonic and Samsung. These big companies have enough money to completely transform the industry, as they did with stereo gear, TVs, and appliances. I'm sure they watch Pentax and Olympus as well, but the consumer electronic giants are the 300 lbs gorillas in the room. Of course Panasonic has access to Olympus technology and Samsung has access to Pentax technology. But the issue here is economies of scale, distributions channels and marketing dollars.

Finally, industrial spying does happen all the time. Companies hire workers away from competitors to learn trade secrets. There was a well publicized incident some years back where a Japanese computer manufacturer tried to bribe an IBM executive to gain access to secret product design manuals. I have no idea how common this practice may be in the camera industry, but it would be naive to think that it never happened.

Thanks Gary. Very thorough response.

And by the way, the more people mention "Apple" in a Pentax thread, and make comparisions between the 2 companies and such, the more easily I can imagine an Apple DSLR.

ftpaddict · 01-14-2008, 09:00 AM

Please, no. Pentax is Pentax. Apple is apple. I hate apple's marketing campaign and I'm not that big a fan of their overpriced and overhyped products (that's putting it mildly)

zntgrg · 01-14-2008, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by Marcus

Thanks Gary. Very thorough response.

And by the way, the more people mention "Apple" in a Pentax thread, and make comparisions between the 2 companies and such, the more easily I can imagine an Apple DSLR.

Naaah...a white glossy camera? anyway Pentax and Apple have something similar...starting from market share to the endless fight against a dark evil empire

Marcus · 01-14-2008, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by zntgrg

Naaah...a white glossy camera?

Yes... exactly, I'm afraid. The Apple iShot...

The iSore?

Flaco · 01-14-2008, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by Marcus

Yes... exactly, I'm afraid. The Apple iShot...

The iSore?

LMFAO, now that's funny.

Bill Gates and Microsoft might as well jump in the game too.

davemdsn · 01-14-2008, 09:38 AM

Apple already makes a camera. It stares at me every time I open my MBP.

SLC Flyfishing · 01-14-2008, 10:00 AM

Now admittedly I'm a huge Apple fan, but that Apple camera idea is not that far-fetched. The iPhone already has a 5 megapixel camera built in; granted it takes terrible pictures (but what do you expect from a phone cam?). Anyway have a look at this!

Apple Hardware Prototypes: Four Radical New Concepts Revealed- MacLife

This has no basis in reality (at least not officially) it's more of a "here's what we think may be in the pipeline from Apple" thing. But just imagine, a camera running an OS X variant with Photo-editing and video/slideshow software onboard. You could do some cool stuff on the go with one of these in your pocket. It's no DSLR but I'd sure be able to get some use out of it at weddings, you could make a cool slideshow of all the candid shots you or an assistant could snap with this and publish it to DVD just in time for the reception. The only thing you'd need your computer for was the actual burning of the DVD. And that's all assuming there's no video out port on the camera, if there was you could just plug it straight into the Projector and sound system.

I'd be the first in line to buy it and that's for sure.

SLC

davemdsn · 01-14-2008, 10:31 AM

How about a DSLR with a 4.5 inch touch screen on the back? Naw, my nose would keep screwing up the settings.

raz · 01-14-2008, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by SLC Flyfishing

But just imagine, a camera running an OS X variant with Photo-editing and video/slideshow software onboard. You could do some cool stuff on the go with one of these in your pocket.

I don't think these superficial innovations are good things. You cannot substitute Photoshop on a large good monitor, with an on board camera editing tool and a 3 inch lcd monitor. The same as you cannot substitute Adobe Aftereffects or Combustion or even Premiere with a software on a telephone that can film "video".

And I would hate to see Pentax connected in any way with Apple. For me Apple is only about design and aggressive marketing. You can find a lot of better and cheaper products than what apple is offering.

ftpaddict · 01-14-2008, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by raz

And I would hate to see Pentax connected in any way with Apple. For me Apple is only about design and aggressive marketing. You can find a lot of better and cheaper products than what apple is offering.

Amen to that.

ricardobeat · 01-14-2008, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by raz

And I would hate to see Pentax connected in any way with Apple. For me Apple is only about design and aggressive marketing. You can find a lot of better and cheaper products than what apple is offering.

Not a very wise thing to say on a web forum. Someone bring the fire extinguisher!

If you look close enough, the specs for apple computers are good for the price. Considering the warranty you get, the non-existance of any incompatibility with your hardware, the quality of the parts (even the Mac Mini on-board audio, for example, is way better than the standard one in a PC), the software (which is one of the main advantages) and all the connectivity between equipment, it's really a fair price. PC Laptops with the same specs as a MacBook usually cost 30% to 50% more. And you get a good looking machine as a bonus. :]

txbonds · 01-14-2008, 11:31 AM

Now that's funny............... I open the link you posted and the first thing that pops up on the maclife website is a sony vario advertisement that you have to click out of.

Originally posted by SLC Flyfishing

Now admittedly I'm a huge Apple fan, but that Apple camera idea is not that far-fetched. The iPhone already has a 5 megapixel camera built in; granted it takes terrible pictures (but what do you expect from a phone cam?). Anyway have a look at this!

Apple Hardware Prototypes: Four Radical New Concepts Revealed- MacLife

This has no basis in reality (at least not officially) it's more of a "here's what we think may be in the pipeline from Apple" thing. But just imagine, a camera running an OS X variant with Photo-editing and video/slideshow software onboard. You could do some cool stuff on the go with one of these in your pocket. It's no DSLR but I'd sure be able to get some use out of it at weddings, you could make a cool slideshow of all the candid shots you or an assistant could snap with this and publish it to DVD just in time for the reception. The only thing you'd need your computer for was the actual burning of the DVD. And that's all assuming there's no video out port on the camera, if there was you could just plug it straight into the Projector and sound system.

I'd be the first in line to buy it and that's for sure.

SLC

ftpaddict · 01-14-2008, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by ricardobeat

Not a very wise thing to say on a web forum. Someone bring the fire extinguisher!

If you look close enough, the specs for apple computers are good for the price. Considering the warranty you get, the non-existance of any incompatibility with your hardware, the quality of the parts (even the Mac Mini on-board audio, for example, is way better than the standard one in a PC), the software (which is one of the main advantages) and all the connectivity between equipment, it's really a fair price. PC Laptops with the same specs as a MacBook usually cost 30% to 50% more. And you get a good looking machine as a bonus. :]

Mayhaps comparing the iPod/iPhone to other, less expensive products?

And I'd really like to see if a Mac can run my copy of Mechwarrior 2 and AutoCAD 2006.

davemdsn · 01-14-2008, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by raz

And I would hate to see Pentax connected in any way with Apple. For me Apple is only about design and aggressive marketing. You can find a lot of better and cheaper products than what apple is offering.

Hate comments aren't fun for anyone so I hope we can keep them to ourselves.

zntgrg · 01-14-2008, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by ftpaddict

Mayhaps comparing the iPod/iPhone to other, less expensive products?

And I'd really like to see if a Mac can run my copy of Mechwarrior 2 and AutoCAD 2006.

You can actually run windows alongside osx on a modern mac: Intel chips, and they offer the drivers for windows of their hardware.
Then, there are three types of cameras: chromed, black and black and chromed togheter. White glossy doesn't work on a camera!

But we're going off-topic here!

01-14-2008, 11:31 AM	#72
txbonds Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 195	Funny Now that's funny............... I open the link you posted and the first thing that pops up on the maclife website is a sony vario advertisement that you have to click out of. Originally posted by SLC Flyfishing Now admittedly I'm a huge Apple fan, but that Apple camera idea is not that far-fetched. The iPhone already has a 5 megapixel camera built in; granted it takes terrible pictures (but what do you expect from a phone cam?). Anyway have a look at this! Apple Hardware Prototypes: Four Radical New Concepts Revealed- MacLife This has no basis in reality (at least not officially) it's more of a "here's what we think may be in the pipeline from Apple" thing. But just imagine, a camera running an OS X variant with Photo-editing and video/slideshow software onboard. You could do some cool stuff on the go with one of these in your pocket. It's no DSLR but I'd sure be able to get some use out of it at weddings, you could make a cool slideshow of all the candid shots you or an assistant could snap with this and publish it to DVD just in time for the reception. The only thing you'd need your computer for was the actual burning of the DVD. And that's all assuming there's no video out port on the camera, if there was you could just plug it straight into the Projector and sound system. I'd be the first in line to buy it and that's for sure. SLC

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01-14-2008, 08:44 AM	#61
Marcus Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 187	Originally posted by GaryML I'll attempt a real answer: It makes no difference whatsoever if Canon or Nikon learn about the details of the Pentax January 24th announcement a few weeks earlier. None at all. Nada. Zip. Of course, it would be helpful to learn of a competitor's product in development that might be released in six months or a year, so you could design a competing product. But a few weeks means nothing. The concern of Pentax is to control the product launch with their presentation coordinated with advertising, the industry show (PMA), dealer promotions, or whatever else they have planned. It's all about their marketing and controlling the market introduction. I base this opinion on case studies such as Apple's vigorous prosecution of NDA violations before certain product introductions. Apple doesn't want anybody undermining the big product launches at Macworld by Steve Jobs. It's the same thing with Pentax. They have a show planned and they don't want it spoiled. They think (rightly or wrongly) that the product introduction will be more successful if it is a surprise. Pentax is small potatoes, and the Big Boys (Canon and Nikon) are more worried about consumer electronics giants like Sony, Panasonic and Samsung. These big companies have enough money to completely transform the industry, as they did with stereo gear, TVs, and appliances. I'm sure they watch Pentax and Olympus as well, but the consumer electronic giants are the 300 lbs gorillas in the room. Of course Panasonic has access to Olympus technology and Samsung has access to Pentax technology. But the issue here is economies of scale, distributions channels and marketing dollars. Finally, industrial spying does happen all the time. Companies hire workers away from competitors to learn trade secrets. There was a well publicized incident some years back where a Japanese computer manufacturer tried to bribe an IBM executive to gain access to secret product design manuals. I have no idea how common this practice may be in the camera industry, but it would be naive to think that it never happened. Thanks Gary. Very thorough response. And by the way, the more people mention "Apple" in a Pentax thread, and make comparisions between the 2 companies and such, the more easily I can imagine an Apple DSLR.

01-14-2008, 09:00 AM	#62
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	Please, no. Pentax is Pentax. Apple is apple. I hate apple's marketing campaign and I'm not that big a fan of their overpriced and overhyped products (that's putting it mildly)

01-14-2008, 09:01 AM	#63
zntgrg Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Verona, Italy Posts: 202	Originally posted by Marcus Thanks Gary. Very thorough response. And by the way, the more people mention "Apple" in a Pentax thread, and make comparisions between the 2 companies and such, the more easily I can imagine an Apple DSLR. Naaah...a white glossy camera? anyway Pentax and Apple have something similar...starting from market share to the endless fight against a dark evil empire

01-14-2008, 09:15 AM	#64
Marcus Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 187	Originally posted by zntgrg Naaah...a white glossy camera? Yes... exactly, I'm afraid. The Apple iShot... The iSore?

01-14-2008, 09:36 AM	#65
Flaco Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Outside Chicago Posts: 218	Originally posted by Marcus Yes... exactly, I'm afraid. The Apple iShot... The iSore? LMFAO, now that's funny. Bill Gates and Microsoft might as well jump in the game too.

01-14-2008, 09:38 AM	#66
davemdsn Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,413	Apple already makes a camera. It stares at me every time I open my MBP.

01-14-2008, 10:00 AM	#67
SLC Flyfishing Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Photos: Gallery Posts: 119	Now admittedly I'm a huge Apple fan, but that Apple camera idea is not that far-fetched. The iPhone already has a 5 megapixel camera built in; granted it takes terrible pictures (but what do you expect from a phone cam?). Anyway have a look at this! Apple Hardware Prototypes: Four Radical New Concepts Revealed- MacLife This has no basis in reality (at least not officially) it's more of a "here's what we think may be in the pipeline from Apple" thing. But just imagine, a camera running an OS X variant with Photo-editing and video/slideshow software onboard. You could do some cool stuff on the go with one of these in your pocket. It's no DSLR but I'd sure be able to get some use out of it at weddings, you could make a cool slideshow of all the candid shots you or an assistant could snap with this and publish it to DVD just in time for the reception. The only thing you'd need your computer for was the actual burning of the DVD. And that's all assuming there's no video out port on the camera, if there was you could just plug it straight into the Projector and sound system. I'd be the first in line to buy it and that's for sure. SLC

01-14-2008, 10:31 AM	#68
davemdsn Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,413	How about a DSLR with a 4.5 inch touch screen on the back? Naw, my nose would keep screwing up the settings.

01-14-2008, 10:41 AM	#69
raz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Timisoara, Romania Posts: 248	Originally posted by SLC Flyfishing But just imagine, a camera running an OS X variant with Photo-editing and video/slideshow software onboard. You could do some cool stuff on the go with one of these in your pocket. I don't think these superficial innovations are good things. You cannot substitute Photoshop on a large good monitor, with an on board camera editing tool and a 3 inch lcd monitor. The same as you cannot substitute Adobe Aftereffects or Combustion or even Premiere with a software on a telephone that can film "video". And I would hate to see Pentax connected in any way with Apple. For me Apple is only about design and aggressive marketing. You can find a lot of better and cheaper products than what apple is offering.

01-14-2008, 10:51 AM	#70
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	Originally posted by raz And I would hate to see Pentax connected in any way with Apple. For me Apple is only about design and aggressive marketing. You can find a lot of better and cheaper products than what apple is offering. Amen to that.

01-14-2008, 11:21 AM	#71
ricardobeat Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Brazil Posts: 376	Originally posted by raz And I would hate to see Pentax connected in any way with Apple. For me Apple is only about design and aggressive marketing. You can find a lot of better and cheaper products than what apple is offering. Not a very wise thing to say on a web forum. Someone bring the fire extinguisher! If you look close enough, the specs for apple computers are good for the price. Considering the warranty you get, the non-existance of any incompatibility with your hardware, the quality of the parts (even the Mac Mini on-board audio, for example, is way better than the standard one in a PC), the software (which is one of the main advantages) and all the connectivity between equipment, it's really a fair price. PC Laptops with the same specs as a MacBook usually cost 30% to 50% more. And you get a good looking machine as a bonus. :]

01-14-2008, 12:14 PM	#73
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	Originally posted by ricardobeat Not a very wise thing to say on a web forum. Someone bring the fire extinguisher! If you look close enough, the specs for apple computers are good for the price. Considering the warranty you get, the non-existance of any incompatibility with your hardware, the quality of the parts (even the Mac Mini on-board audio, for example, is way better than the standard one in a PC), the software (which is one of the main advantages) and all the connectivity between equipment, it's really a fair price. PC Laptops with the same specs as a MacBook usually cost 30% to 50% more. And you get a good looking machine as a bonus. :] Mayhaps comparing the iPod/iPhone to other, less expensive products? And I'd really like to see if a Mac can run my copy of Mechwarrior 2 and AutoCAD 2006.

01-14-2008, 12:30 PM	#74
davemdsn Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,413	Originally posted by raz And I would hate to see Pentax connected in any way with Apple. For me Apple is only about design and aggressive marketing. You can find a lot of better and cheaper products than what apple is offering. Hate comments aren't fun for anyone so I hope we can keep them to ourselves.

01-14-2008, 12:37 PM	#75
zntgrg Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Verona, Italy Posts: 202	Originally posted by ftpaddict Mayhaps comparing the iPod/iPhone to other, less expensive products? And I'd really like to see if a Mac can run my copy of Mechwarrior 2 and AutoCAD 2006. You can actually run windows alongside osx on a modern mac: Intel chips, and they offer the drivers for windows of their hardware. Then, there are three types of cameras: chromed, black and black and chromed togheter. White glossy doesn't work on a camera! But we're going off-topic here!