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01-18-2008, 10:59 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
First of all I don't want a zoom! Even if I did the DA 12-24 sells for $720, not $600. I'd buy a FF 28mp body for $2000 before I'd buy the DA 12-24 for $720.
Darn! Well, anyhow, I didn't want to sell it

(And that was 600 not $ BTW)

As a side note, I'd love to see a 18f2.8 compact and sharp coming up!

01-18-2008, 12:42 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vertex Ninja Quote
I like the idea of a square sensor and would love to see one in the next camera. It would essentially eliminate the need for a vertical grip(although it'd still be nice for batteries).
Entirely serious, if extremely unlikely, suggestion: Heck, if we're doing that, why not a CIRCULAR ccd? I mean, lenses produce an image CIRCLE. Then not only could we crop however we want to, we could even ROTATE however we want!

/pipe dream

...*sigh*
01-18-2008, 01:31 PM   #33
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Ha, I thought about that too, believe it or not. Ruled it out because of the way the sensors are manufactured. There would be a ton of waste, which would mean ridiculous prices. + it would be a bit much for most people to take seriously, I imagine.
01-18-2008, 03:28 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vertex Ninja Quote
Ha, I thought about that too, believe it or not. Ruled it out because of the way the sensors are manufactured. There would be a ton of waste, which would mean ridiculous prices. + it would be a bit much for most people to take seriously, I imagine.
Ah, I was hoping it would be the other way around -- that a sensor base is like a processor's round silicon wafer, where the waste actually comes from converting it to a rectangle. Oh well!



01-18-2008, 03:32 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by amateur6 Quote
Ah, I was hoping it would be the other way around -- that a sensor base is like a processor's round silicon wafer, where the waste actually comes from converting it to a rectangle. Oh well!

CCDs are manufactured on a circular wafer.
01-18-2008, 03:37 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by JMS Quote
CCDs are manufactured on a circular wafer.
...


...


...


01-18-2008, 06:27 PM   #37
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Yeah it's on a circle. With the square/rectangular ccd you'd only waste on the edges of the wafer; with a circle you'd waste around every circle and on the edge of the wafer. Or at least that's how I pictured it in my head... you know, like when you use a cookie cutter to cut round cookies out of a round piece of dough. Pure speculation on my part. If it was more efficient(cost wise), I'd think processors would be round already. Who knows.


Last edited by Vertex Ninja; 01-18-2008 at 08:59 PM.
01-18-2008, 07:55 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vertex Ninja Quote
Yeah it's on a circle. With the square/rectangular ccd you'd only waste on the edges of the wafer; with a circle you'd waste around every circle and on the edge of the wafer. Or at least that's how I pictured it in my head... you know, like when you use a cookie cutter to cut round cookies out of a round piece of dough. Pure speculation on my part. If it was more efficient(cost wise), I'd think processors would be round already. Who knows.
How would you view the round image on the display? Transparent background? Solid? Anti-aliased edges or not? Maybe they should announce a round LCD to go with it!

01-18-2008, 08:55 PM   #39
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Now that's just silly!
01-19-2008, 05:34 AM   #40
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[QUOTE=Vertex Ninja;156061]If it was more efficient(cost wise), I'd think processors would be round already. Who knows./QUOTE]

Ah, c'mon -- we do ALL KINDS of things that are inefficient just because it's the way we've done them before. Granted, some part of that is because there's all kinds of infrastructure set up to support the OLD way, so there's an overall efficiency...

That's why it's a REVOLUTIONARY idea: you have to chuck out all the old stuff!

I'm going to have to do some math on the cookie-cutter thing. I'll edit it back in here.

And Ricardo -- well, given that most people would still be cropping somewhere, I'd say use a square display. I know, I know, too serious... *sigh*
01-19-2008, 05:49 AM   #41
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Well how about hexagonal (no waste of space, aprox. round) or rotating ccd then?

Last edited by ytterbium; 01-19-2008 at 05:53 AM. Reason: mistype
01-19-2008, 07:14 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by ytterbium Quote
Well how about hexagonal (no waste of space, aprox. round) or rotating ccd then?
ROTATING HEXAGONAL! Genius.
01-19-2008, 08:43 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by amateur6 Quote
... I'm going to have to do some math on the cookie-cutter thing. I'll edit it back in here...
Mmmm coookies... my favorite kind of math.

Hexagon? Brilliant!
01-19-2008, 08:04 PM   #44
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Wafer cutting circles...

Since they'd have to cut squares for the circular sensors (wafer saws must cut a straight line all the way across the wafer), then maybe they could integrate all of the support circuitry in the corners. So maybe there'd be no waste after all.

Bart
01-23-2008, 05:55 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikePerham Quote
Well, the camera bodies are not much different, however, lenses are. Overall, my MZ-S and a 70-200 f/2.8 is bigger and heavier than my K10D with the DA* 50-135 - particularly in the Lens department.
Oh I agree, the lenses are bigger... bodies as you say not necessarily, for example my film *Ist is smaller and lighter than my K100d... although I'm sure digital bodies could be made lighter and more compact too... but my point is more that although an APS-C setup can be lighter and smaller than a 35mm one, it's a noticeable difference but not a huge one... reading some threads you would think that a 35mm-format camera must be some kind of unmanageable beast, like carrying a 6x7 around all day. Basically I just don't think the size/weight difference is that significant, not enough to constitute an argument that no sane person would ever want full-frame.

QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
I understand it but since I have no problem getting the pics I want from an APS-C cam... I don't really get the argument that the only chance of survival for Pentax is to go FF right away...
I am actually in complete agreement with you on this. I know my 6mp APS-C dSLR is essentially "good enough" for 99.9% of my needs. I am sure that the forthcoming K20D, if it lives up to it's specs, would make that 100%. Quite simply I don't need a full-frame camera, and if I could afford one, I'd rather get a really good APS-C one and spend the difference on glass. But that's now. If 'FF' does potentially have an 'IQ' advantage then I could certainly see myself buying one once they become as affordable as APS-C ones are now (even though APS-C ones would then be cheaper still). But not now.

Honestly, I am in no hurry to own a full-frame camera. I certainly would not argue that Pentax's only chance of survival is to "go FF right away"; in fact that's probably the worst thing they could do - their best chance now is to concentrate on APS-C cameras in the entry and mid-levels while expanding the range of glass... which is exactly what they're doing. If other companies decide to make FF the standard then I think Pentax will be under a lot of pressure to follow suit, but that's a way off yet... no, Pentax doesn't need to go FF now and I wouldn't suggest that they do. Like you I don't understand that argument. But don't forget there's also an equally extreme opposing argument we see around here... the argument that Pentax should never make a FF camera, that no sane person would ever want to buy one, that no-one would ever be able to lift and carry one because they're so big but that's ok because no-one could ever afford one anyway... and I don't get that argument either
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