Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-13-2008, 07:31 AM   #1
Forum Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia PA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 76
CCD Size - K20d

I'm curious, but it would be interesting if Pentax decided to use a full 35mm size CCD as with the higher priced Canon's and Nikon's. That would really give this model another edge. Does anyone have any info as to what type and CCD will be used?

- Dave

01-13-2008, 08:20 AM   #2
Veteran Member
codiac2600's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Posts: 2,030
QuoteOriginally posted by ruemiser Quote
I'm curious, but it would be interesting if Pentax decided to use a full 35mm size CCD as with the higher priced Canon's and Nikon's. That would really give this model another edge. Does anyone have any info as to what type and CCD will be used?

- Dave
It can only be speculation right now and we won't know the honest truth till PMA later next week.

It could be full-frame but there is no support for a sensor that large from Pentax.

Just sit back and wait till PMA, it will be clear what they are using and why.
01-13-2008, 01:16 PM   #3
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,299
QuoteOriginally posted by ruemiser Quote
I'm curious, but it would be interesting if Pentax decided to use a full 35mm size CCD as with the higher priced Canon's and Nikon's.
Forget about Full Frame (35mm) size sensor from Pentax. There won't be any in the foreseeable future. And I don't see the point either. The price of such camera will be in the stratosphere, affordable by few, and will remain as a niche product. Maybe in the distant future if the price would come down (which I doubt). APS-C sensor camera would always hold a significant price advantage.

K20D will use 14.6MP CMOS sensor. And if the low light capability is as good as rumors suggest (possible ISO 6400 available), then why do we need pay thousands more for a Full Frame camera except some professionals with specific needs?
01-13-2008, 03:35 PM   #4
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Posts: 1,399
QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Forget about Full Frame (35mm) size sensor from Pentax. There won't be any in the foreseeable future. And I don't see the point either. The price of such camera will be in the stratosphere, affordable by few, and will remain as a niche product. Maybe in the distant future if the price would come down (which I doubt). APS-C sensor camera would always hold a significant price advantage.

K20D will use 14.6MP CMOS sensor. And if the low light capability is as good as rumors suggest (possible ISO 6400 available), then why do we need pay thousands more for a Full Frame camera except some professionals with specific needs?
Agreed. The cost to research and manufacture full-frame sensors may have gone down, but is still prohibitively high, and only a relatively few rich hobbyists and pros can afford such a camera, with most of those users already locked in with a system. That's why only Canon and Nikon have full-frame DSLRs thus far.

And it has been noted that Pentax still lacks the lens offerings to be able to support a full-frame camera.

I could be wrong, though. We'll see in the next few days. Not that long a wait now.

01-13-2008, 03:39 PM   #5
Inactive Account




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buckinghamshire, UK
Posts: 30
Perceived wisdom seems to suggest that the DA lenses will cover the APS-H sensor. If this is, indeed, the case then if I were designing a truly revolutionary new sensor I would ignore all the competition and make one that is 1:1 in aspect ratio and based on the APS-H length.

This would allow the use of all the DA (and earlier) lenses and would give a surface area that is within a gnat's chuff of "full frame". Let me elaborate;

APS-H measures 28.7mm x 19.1mm and gives an imaging area of 548.17mm squared.

35mmFF measures 36mmx24mm and gives an imaging area of 864mm squared.

New 1:1 sensor would measure 28.7mm x 28.7mm giving an imaging area of 823.69mm squared.

You wouldn't lose anything over the APS-C or -H sensors in terms of the image captured (you may find yourself doing a lot more cropping to get desired results - adjustable grid lines on demand in the VF could help composition) although FF would still give a slightly "wider" FOV.

I don't know if this is the way the K20D will go but it is the sort of thinking that I want to see from Pentax - I don't want them to chase the rest of the pack, I want them to lead the pack down new paths...
01-13-2008, 08:01 PM   #6
Inactive Account




Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 652
QuoteOriginally posted by hefty1 Quote
...I would ignore all the competition and make one that is 1:1 in aspect ratio and based on the APS-H length...
I've been thinking this too!

I like the idea of a square sensor and would love to see one in the next camera. It would essentially eliminate the need for a vertical grip(although it'd still be nice for batteries). I process all my keepers in Lightroom, which makes cropping trivial. I'd even be happy if it was just a square APS-C, though Something a little bigger would be welcome . For those that want to crop in camera, just put a small toggle for portrait/landscape(within thumbs reach) and voila... no need to waste time rotating the camera. I'm just a hobbyist though, so my needs/wants may be different than the pro etc.
01-13-2008, 08:53 PM   #7
Veteran Member
borno's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: md-usa
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,580
I always liked the square format when I had MF film camera (6x6) that would take some getting used to for those whose only world has been 35mm, risky I would think but I'd like it. The mirror might not clear the back of some lenses though I'd think.
01-13-2008, 09:37 PM   #8
Inactive Account




Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 652
QuoteOriginally posted by borno Quote
...The mirror might not clear the back of some lenses though I'd think.
Didn't even think of that.

01-13-2008, 09:43 PM   #9
Inactive Account




Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Vilcabamba, Loja
Posts: 216
Bad Idea

QuoteOriginally posted by ruemiser Quote
That would really give this model another edge.
And how exactly, Dave, would forcing a camera to be bigger and heavier, and forcing us to buy bigger and heavier long lenses exactly be an advantage? It's would be an expensive, silly disadvantage. Stop trolling here please.
01-14-2008, 07:24 AM   #10
Forum Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia PA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 76
Original Poster
I have many older lenses and I was told from the members here that the aspect ration changes somewhat since the CCD is smaller from that of 35mm film. I would love to use my older lenses. Of course, I won't pay 3k to 4k for an upgrade like this of course. I do love my K10d.

QuoteOriginally posted by Mr. The Guy Quote
And how exactly, Dave, would forcing a camera to be bigger and heavier, and forcing us to buy bigger and heavier long lenses exactly be an advantage? It's would be an expensive, silly disadvantage. Stop trolling here please.
01-14-2008, 07:36 AM   #11
Veteran Member
FotoPete's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,710
what about a 14MP FoveonX3 CMOS like the one on the Sigma SD14? (dropping from 1.5 to 1.7X FoV crop).
01-14-2008, 08:02 AM   #12
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,022
QuoteOriginally posted by hefty1 Quote
Perceived wisdom seems to suggest that the DA lenses will cover the APS-H sensor. If this is, indeed, the case then if I were designing a truly revolutionary new sensor I would ignore all the competition and make one that is 1:1 in aspect ratio and based on the APS-H length.

This would allow the use of all the DA (and earlier) lenses and would give a surface area that is within a gnat's chuff of "full frame". Let me elaborate;

APS-H measures 28.7mm x 19.1mm and gives an imaging area of 548.17mm squared.

35mmFF measures 36mmx24mm and gives an imaging area of 864mm squared.

New 1:1 sensor would measure 28.7mm x 28.7mm giving an imaging area of 823.69mm squared.

You wouldn't lose anything over the APS-C or -H sensors in terms of the image captured (you may find yourself doing a lot more cropping to get desired results - adjustable grid lines on demand in the VF could help composition) although FF would still give a slightly "wider" FOV.

I don't know if this is the way the K20D will go but it is the sort of thinking that I want to see from Pentax - I don't want them to chase the rest of the pack, I want them to lead the pack down new paths...
That's wrong. It's not because APS-H doesn't vignet that 28.7mm x 28.7mm won't vignet. After all, the corners of the APS-H rectangle may still fall just within the circle of confusion of the DA lenses (which for this must have a minimum diameter of 34.5mm), the square you describe is higher and will most likely exceed the circle of confusion (minimum diameter of 40.6mm!). The maximum square within the minimum APS-H circle of confusion is approx 24.4mm x 24.4mm, that's a surface of 594mm squared.

Plus... SR needs some margin to move around and thus requires an circle of confusion which is larger by a margin than the sensor diameter, not "just" larger. So, if you want to retain SR, APS-C is probablt still the only way, regardless of vignetting on a APS-H sensor or not...

Wim
01-14-2008, 09:52 AM   #13
Veteran Member
lol101's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Garennes sur Eure France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 900
QuoteOriginally posted by hefty1 Quote
Perceived wisdom seems to suggest that the DA lenses will cover the APS-H sensor. If this is, indeed, the case then if I were designing a truly revolutionary new sensor I would ignore all the competition and make one that is 1:1 in aspect ratio and based on the APS-H length.

This would allow the use of all the DA (and earlier) lenses and would give a surface area that is within a gnat's chuff of "full frame". Let me elaborate;

APS-H measures 28.7mm x 19.1mm and gives an imaging area of 548.17mm squared.

35mmFF measures 36mmx24mm and gives an imaging area of 864mm squared.

New 1:1 sensor would measure 28.7mm x 28.7mm giving an imaging area of 823.69mm squared.

You wouldn't lose anything over the APS-C or -H sensors in terms of the image captured (you may find yourself doing a lot more cropping to get desired results - adjustable grid lines on demand in the VF could help composition) although FF would still give a slightly "wider" FOV.

I don't know if this is the way the K20D will go but it is the sort of thinking that I want to see from Pentax - I don't want them to chase the rest of the pack, I want them to lead the pack down new paths...
Hefty, don't take it the wrong way but you're my kind of man!

I would absolutely LOVE a square format sensor!
01-17-2008, 07:49 PM   #14
Inactive Account




Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 264
QuoteOriginally posted by Mr. The Guy Quote
And how exactly, Dave, would forcing a camera to be bigger and heavier, and forcing us to buy bigger and heavier long lenses exactly be an advantage? It's would be an expensive, silly disadvantage. Stop trolling here please.
I continue to be amazed by this idea going around that a camera or lens using a sensor size a little bit larger (the size of film negs/slides many of us used without complaint for many years) must inherently be too large and heavy for a human being to carry. Or that APS-C ones are wonderful featherweight things you can carry in your pocket.

Stop making silly accusations of trolling just because you don't agree with the other guy's opinion please.

----

On a less grumpy note regarding hefty1's post... I still like using medium format TLRs for their square format and could definitely see myself using a digital camera with a square sensor.

Last edited by ZaphodB; 01-17-2008 at 08:25 PM.
01-18-2008, 02:31 AM   #15
Veteran Member
lol101's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Garennes sur Eure France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 900
QuoteOriginally posted by Vertex Ninja Quote
I've been thinking this too!

I like the idea of a square sensor and would love to see one in the next camera. It would essentially eliminate the need for a vertical grip(although it'd still be nice for batteries). I process all my keepers in Lightroom, which makes cropping trivial. I'd even be happy if it was just a square APS-C, though Something a little bigger would be welcome . For those that want to crop in camera, just put a small toggle for portrait/landscape(within thumbs reach) and voila... no need to waste time rotating the camera. I'm just a hobbyist though, so my needs/wants may be different than the pro etc.
I would also love a square format camera but... think of the size of the mirror, mirror box and prism you would need in order to get a clear image of such a square sensor... bigger than FF I would guess...
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
ccd, pentax news, pentax rumors, size
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Test: DxO K20D - full size comparisons falconeye Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 6 11-03-2009 03:42 PM
Quick Question.. Please Help? K20D Focus Sensor size? designinme_1976 Pentax DSLR Discussion 2 10-02-2009 09:31 PM
K20d jpeg file size rustynail925 Pentax DSLR Discussion 8 09-05-2009 06:00 PM
Newbie with K20D file size question bessa66 Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 2 07-31-2009 05:12 AM
Viewfinder Size and Brightness of K20D markpsf Pentax News and Rumors 5 01-23-2008 12:02 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:38 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top