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04-18-2012, 03:23 PM   #136
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Gotta give Ned credit - he's late with his statement to us, but he's responding to the posts on his blog.

Encouragingly, he's implied that prices will drop over the summer.

Discouragingly, he points out that Limiteds have no real competition, implying (IMO) no prices drops.

"...when the prices settle down, I think you'll see we're competitive and I don't think it's apples to apples to compare a "limited" lens like the DA 21 with standard 20mm lenses - totally different construction, weight optics etc." - Ned

04-18-2012, 03:29 PM   #137
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Ned's responses to posts on the blog;

"Bill S, when the prices settle down, I think you'll see we're competitive"

"we realize this was disruptive, but truly believe that longer term stable pricing and timely rebates is a win-win for both our users, our dealers and the brand."

"icgarbage, I can understand that lower prices in the past probably helped you get into a Pentax system, but if we re-institute rebates, you'll still be able to realize a savings but only during a limited time period. If you check with Canon shooters, I think you'll hear that many of them only buy their lenses when Canon runs their twice annual lens rebate promos. "

well there you have it.
things are looking up?
04-18-2012, 03:34 PM   #138
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Hopefully I will be able to go back and apologize for every critical comment i ever made about Ned and John.
04-18-2012, 03:38 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by parsons Quote
If you check with Canon shooters, I think you'll hear that many of them only buy their lenses when Canon runs their twice annual lens rebate promos.
Hmm, I'd posed this question earlier on. I guess they really do only want to sell lenses during rebate programs. That would be ok I guess. We'll have to see how these turn out. I expect nobody is going to sell their lenses used during those time periods though .

04-18-2012, 03:38 PM - 1 Like   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
There is nothing from stopping you or someone from Canada starting a thread about Canada USA and the current pricing structure. And if you did, I doubt there would be very few people getting on there going "woo hoo" stick to those guys.
Wow we agree on something.
The thing is Canada and Canadians are largely highly regarded by the world.
Canadians, you know the people Americans pretend to be when traveling abroad.
Probably it's what goes around comes around.
04-18-2012, 03:52 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
Wow we agree on something.
The thing is Canada and Canadians are largely highly regarded by the world.
Canadians, you know the people Americans pretend to be when traveling abroad.
Probably it's what goes around comes around.
Because every citizen is responsible for the policies of his native country as a whole? Next time I meet someone from China I'm going to kick them in the nuts . It's bigotry to treat someone differently based on their country of origin. We're all people, we should all help one another. We should congratulate others good fortune and successes and offer condolences for their woes. All in all these are first world problems that don't amount to much, but Americans, as individuals, aren't some enemy to be scorned, or deserving victims of their own karmic backlash.
04-18-2012, 03:53 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Hopefully I will be able to go back and apologize for every critical comment i ever made about Ned and John.
I know you're an optimist, monochrome, but NOW you're just making crazy talk.
04-18-2012, 03:54 PM   #143
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I'm impressed that he posted the responses and personally addressed many of them. Good of him to do so! I guess that means I'll only be buying new Pentax lenses during rebates.

04-18-2012, 03:55 PM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Gotta give Ned credit - he's late with his statement to us, but he's responding to the posts on his blog.

Encouragingly, he's implied that prices will drop over the summer.

Discouragingly, he points out that Limiteds have no real competition, implying (IMO) no prices drops.

"...when the prices settle down, I think you'll see we're competitive and I don't think it's apples to apples to compare a "limited" lens like the DA 21 with standard 20mm lenses - totally different construction, weight optics etc." - Ned
I agree that there's nothing exactly like a limited. At the same time they DO have competition of course. It's not apples to apples, no, but when you go to the grocery store you sometimes choose between buying a mango and buying an avacado. If avacados prices double you'll buy a mango.

In any case I thank Ned for responding to the posts.
04-18-2012, 04:15 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
Because every citizen is responsible for the policies of his native country as a whole? Next time I meet someone from China I'm going to kick them in the nuts . It's bigotry to treat someone differently based on their country of origin. We're all people, we should all help one another. We should congratulate others good fortune and successes and offer condolences for their woes. All in all these are first world problems that don't amount to much, but Americans, as individuals, aren't some enemy to be scorned, or deserving victims of their own karmic backlash.
I agree with your main points. I actually pity Americans as individuals because they have to live in such a f---ed society. One could argue that in a Democratic society individuals are indeed responsible for the politics of their country.
04-18-2012, 04:18 PM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
It's not apples to apples, no, but when you go to the grocery store you sometimes choose between buying a mango and buying an avacado. If avacados prices double you'll buy a mango.
But never the other way around, because avocados require a shorter register distance and you won't be able to focus it to infinity.
04-18-2012, 04:28 PM   #147
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QuoteQuote:
One user comment I read summarized the situation quite well by saying, I think you are seriously misunderstanding the whole conversation. Pentax has not raised prices. They have required authorized dealers to stick to MSRP [Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price] or some percentage of it (we do not know the exact terms). Pentax is attempting to police their sales channel just as many other manufacturers do. Any additional margin will go to the dealers not Pentax.”
Well, getting quoted by the president of Pentax USA has left me all warm and tingly. I am sure there will be many who will step in and say I only got quoted because I was saying what Ned wanted to hear but I have spent most of my life in business at both the retail and wholesale levels so I think that gives me some experience to intelligently comment on what is happening. Which I did, here.

What everyone seems to consistently miss (or ignore) is that this is about the long term survival of a brand. Based on the level of discounting I doubt any USA retailers were making much on Pentax. This is not strictly about brick & mortar stores not being able to compete, this is about ALL retailers online or otherwise not making anything on Pentax because no one was policing the sales channel, like most other manufacturers already do. And if there is no profit in an item it loses shelf space, either real or virtual because retailers will not long support a brand that does not return margin to them. Even if they caused that by discounting the brand themselves. It is the manufacturers job to police the sales channel and make sure there is enough profit in the brand that retailers will want to support it.

But getting quoted by Ned does show that he was reading along. So, Ned if you are still reading along thank you for the quote, it is a great compliment to my forum post writing skills! And may I direct your attention to this thread discussing some sales and promotion ideas for Pentax. I know you have professionals working on that stuff, but hey this is free!
04-18-2012, 04:31 PM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
Wow we agree on something.
The thing is Canada and Canadians are largely highly regarded by the world.
Canadians, you know the people Americans pretend to be when traveling abroad.
Probably it's what goes around comes around.
Yeah, and when the world wants help who do they turn to? Are they speaking German across Europe now? Hmmm. Funny man, love the and other added value icons.
04-18-2012, 04:32 PM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
I agree with your main points. I actually pity Americans as individuals because they have to live in such a f---ed society. One could argue that in a Democratic society individuals are indeed responsible for the politics of their country.
There is democracy and there is reality. In practice democracy begins to fall apart as the number of people grow. Even Canada has its problems, and you are 1/15th as many?
04-18-2012, 04:34 PM - 1 Like   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
There is democracy and there is reality. In practice democracy begins to fall apart as the number of people grow. Even Canada has its problems, and you are 1/15th as many?
Better write that in French and English......

It's been real eye opening what complete bastards many of our non-US "friends" here on the Pentax forum are in actual fact. Sad, but eye opening.
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