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04-19-2012, 04:52 AM   #226
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
I assume there are Canons and Nikons available in B&M stores in the US? And I also assume they aren't usually sold on MSRP. So what's the difference between the brands (except close to non-existing Pentax marketing)?
Where to start? How about market presence through genuine advertizing, enthusiast events, stupid little things like actually having a full range of products at different price points, inferior build quality and image performance at the same level as Pentax but superior AF and processing, PR people that do not insult their customers, recognition that the photographer is their customer NOT the retailer, staff who actually know the product and can help you with a question or even give you a mini lesson on the spot, distributing all the accessories that Nikon makes in Japan here in the US and not being asses when asked for a specialty accessory that they list in the manual for the camera, a CEO who does not blog about Leica and insult photographer users of Nikon camera's intelligence, a recognition that cultures sre different and what works in Europe usually doesn't in the US, a good reputation, training for retail sales people on the actual selling points of the gear, a webpage that lists the releases announced in Japan one the same day on the US website too, repair parts that are generally available on hand, a coherent replacement of each line before it is discontinued, Swag readily available such as Nikon hats, shirts, etc., tethering that they support, representatives that actually positively interact with Nikon fan sites, consistent answers to questions in a timely fashion - usually, a strong presence in the photography teaching sources and among visible to the public professionals, my fingers are tired........

Why did I buy my first Pentax? Because the K-x was SO superior that the gearhead websites gushed over it, it uses AA batteries, it supports legacy lenses, AND I could find it for significantly less than the Nikon and Canon eqivalents.


Last edited by Docrwm; 04-19-2012 at 04:57 AM.
04-19-2012, 04:55 AM   #227
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
and when did you enter the war again. give me a break referencing a 70 year old situation, meantime you've interfered in many countries since who haven't wanted your help
you want to make crap comments like that take it to P&R
(BTW Canada was in the war several years before you)
Canada was less independent from Britian at the time. Sorry, we had no treaty obligations and no ties to an existing participant like Canada, SA, NZ, and the rest of the Commonwealth.
04-19-2012, 05:03 AM   #228
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Canada was less independent from Britian at the time. Sorry, we had no treaty obligations and no ties to an existing participant like Canada, SA, NZ, and the rest of the Commonwealth.
your correct the us was isolationist at the time, and it took pearl harbor to get them involved. not a request for help.

but like i said this is a P&R discussion
04-19-2012, 05:08 AM   #229
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
your correct the us was isolationist at the time, and it took pearl harbor to get them involved. not a request for help.

but like i said this is a P&R discussion
Please try to keep up. US service personnel were dying well before Dec 7th 1941 because we were quietly supporting the UK. We gave equipment, protected shipping, flew aircover, sank German submarines, trained canadian and UK fliers, etc., etc., etc. Then we were attacked by Japan but made the UK our main area of support not the Pacific. No, you can try to minimize it all you want but if not for us the Queen would live in Canada today.

04-19-2012, 05:17 AM - 1 Like   #230
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
I assume there are Canons and Nikons available in B&M stores in the US? And I also assume they aren't usually sold on MSRP. So what's the difference between the brands (except close to non-existing Pentax marketing)?
Actually Nikon prices are strictly controlled, and there is little to no difference between online and B&M pricing.
Pentax was not controlled at all. That is the fault of Pentax US IMO.
Now they are reacting with a sledgehammer to fix it.
Canon prices also are strictly controlled and the best prices are rebate periods
Sony also has a policy like this (and in fact recently applied a similar policy to TV which they had let up on much to the detriment of the brand)
I agree that online sales are an important component of business now, but B&M still remains an important Channel and if this brings the channel back as an outlet there is a benefit
Pentax also likely caused some of the Grey Market with the high minimum requirement that Hoya instituted. Unfortunately this was doen, and it too needs to be dealt with.
It's a painful reality for now but for long term health of the brand it also needed to be done.

Reading through Neds responses is actually interesting, and it's good to see him respond directly if you ask me. I know it's damage control but he is making good points
the one that interested me most is this one

QuoteQuote:
but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you find out that our weatherproof line is now being carried in over 1700 stores whose primary color is red. It's a first step but important on many levels. Thanks, Ned
sounds like Target to me

and this one

QuoteQuote:
And while I mentioned we are considering bringing back rebates to help with this transition, you need to know we also are looking at other ways to improve customer satisfaction such as lens warranties. I can't possibly share everything we are working on but the notion driven by the forums that we're not looking at this Growth in America strategy from every angle is just not an accurate picture.
so perhaps the warranty length is being addressed as well


and this
QuoteQuote:
For every person that says they only shop on-line and don't care about stores, there's another person that wants us to increase our stores so they can handle a camera or lens before they buy. Both have valid wants and needs, and we can't ignore either of them.
Which is very valid and is something a few people have pointed out
04-19-2012, 05:18 AM   #231
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Please try to keep up. US service personnel were dying well before Dec 7th 1941 because we were quietly supporting the UK. We gave equipment, protected shipping, flew aircover, sank German submarines, trained canadian and UK fliers, etc., etc., etc. Then we were attacked by Japan but made the UK our main area of support not the Pacific. No, you can try to minimize it all you want but if not for us the Queen would live in Canada today.

Like I said if you want we can discuss this in P&R.
04-19-2012, 06:44 AM - 1 Like   #232
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Time will tell....and I suspect the financial reports from Ricoh will be the first indication. If this works well, and Pentax takes off like a rocket, expect to see Auto Makers enforce the Sticker Price on all their new vehicles....and a doubled price. A $40K Kia Rio is going to be a big winner....right?
My guess is that the Pentax Rocket idea was made in N Korea..........and will return to earth faster than it went up. Reality is a hard landing.
Regards!
04-19-2012, 06:54 AM   #233
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Pentax absolutely needs to be on the shelf in places like this.

Digital Cameras - Product - RA-LIN The Original Discounter!

And to get in on promotions like this...

Specials Flyer

04-19-2012, 06:59 AM   #234
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
A $40K Kia Rio is going to be a big winner....right?
Now you're too mean

(And in fact, the different Kia Rio models cost from $28K to $42K in Norway! )
04-19-2012, 07:26 AM   #235
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Interesting responses to posts on NB's blog--such as these ones:

QuoteQuote:
Ned Bunnell responded:

Bill S, when the prices settle down, I think you'll see we're competitive and I don't think it's apples to apples to compare a "limited" lens like the DA 21 with standard 20mm lenses - totally different construction, weight optics etc.

about 7 hours agoNed Bunnell responded:

J Smalls, we realize this was disruptive, but truly believe that longer term stable pricing and timely rebates is a win-win for both our users, our dealers and the brand.
about 7 hours agoNed Bunnell responded:

icgarbage, I can understand that lower prices in the past probably helped you get into a Pentax system, but if we re-institute rebates, you'll still be able to realize a savings but only during a limited time period. If you check with Canon shooters, I think you'll hear that many of them only buy their lenses when Canon runs their twice annual lens rebate promos. Hope this helps.

about 1 hour agoNed Bunnell responded:

[...] And while I mentioned we are considering bringing back rebates to help with this transition, you need to know we also are looking at other ways to improve customer satisfaction such as lens warranties. I can't possibly share everything we are working on but the notion driven by the forums that we're not looking at this Growth in America strategy from every angle is just not an accurate picture.

Last edited by causey; 04-19-2012 at 07:31 AM.
04-19-2012, 07:26 AM   #236
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Well show me the website where you can buy a Kia Rio over the internet and have it delivered to your door Priority Mail Falt Rate. We have plenty of automobile B&M stores. We need more of them using the Honda "New Way" selling model. (Priced on the windshield - no dickering, no add-ons, no hassle. I love it!!)
04-19-2012, 07:33 AM - 1 Like   #237
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A message from Conan O'Brien, whose birthday was yesterday

"Please do not be cynical. I hate cynicism; for the record its my least favorite quality. It doesn't lead anywhere. Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard and you're kind, amazing things will happen."

And he wrote the "Marge vs. the Monorail" episode of the Simpsons. What a guy!
04-19-2012, 07:44 AM   #238
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Well show me the website where you can buy a Kia Rio over the internet and have it delivered to your door Priority Mail Falt Rate. We have plenty of automobile B&M stores. We need more of them using the Honda "New Way" selling model. (Priced on the windshield - no dickering, no add-ons, no hassle. I love it!!)
'New Way'

04-19-2012, 07:55 AM   #239
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If this continues as a political argument, rather than a camera/industry/policy discussion, it will be closed, and soon.
04-19-2012, 08:12 AM   #240
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
and when did you enter the war again. give me a break referencing a 70 year old situation, meantime you've interfered in many countries since who haven't wanted your help
you want to make crap comments like that take it to P&R
(BTW Canada was in the war several years before you)
Maybe you need to go look up Co. Claire Chennault and The Flying Tigers. Plus, Chennault's group started out in 1937 training and advising the Chinese Air force. When the Chinese Air force collapsed 1940, the Volunteer Air Group flew directly against the Japanese slowing their advance. These pilots had "temporarily" resigned their commissions to participated until just after Dec 7, 1941.
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