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04-22-2012, 03:05 AM   #346
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
How did this sharing of huge profits work? Most in this thread would like to learn more about the mechanics of this relationship.

OTOH, it does assume that there are huge profits to share ....
The "Huge" is related to the total profits.Assuming total is $100, then sharing $80 to the physical channels if they show their TVs, Smart Phone,etc on the visible location.For maximum profits, I think Pentax should not control dealers pricing, that is impossible actually.For example, prices of some DA* ZOOM in Amazon.com have dropped.

They should subsidy physical channels.You can see the subsidy as a advertising cost.

04-22-2012, 03:09 AM   #347
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And he is correct, what is happening is (more or less) asking retailers to stick with MSRP.
Well less asking and more not giving an option on the MSRP prices. So he does not increased prices, but forced retailers to stick with the unrealistic prices nobody was buying at.

The customer had MSRP (high prices) and retailer market price ("normal" prices). MSRP are prices established by Pentax in their Mars laboratory.

Pentax require from all retailers to sell at MSRP. Without having anything to say about, retailers have to increase prices to MSRP.

So the customer have to pay high prices because Pentax has forced retailers to sell at higher prices.

Conclusion: Ned is Pentax customer's best friend in USA!
04-22-2012, 03:23 AM   #348
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QuoteOriginally posted by JerryLime Quote
The "Huge" is related to the total profits.Assuming total is $100, then sharing $80 to the physical channels if they show their TVs, Smart Phone,etc on the visible location.For maximum profits, I think Pentax should not control dealers pricing, that is impossible actually.For example, prices of some DA* ZOOM in Amazon.com have dropped.

They should subsidy physical channels.You can see the subsidy as a advertising cost.
who's to know that the prices the DA* zoom has dropped to isn't still above the MSRP?
ned did say that the prices would 'settle' at a competitive level...
04-22-2012, 03:31 AM   #349
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And he is correct, what is happening is (more or less) asking retailers to stick with MSRP.
Well, I must admit this isn't the most accurate statement (that's why the "more or less"); UPP prices aren't necessarily the MSRP.
At least Amazon.com goes under MSRP, e.g. right now for the 50-135 they ask $1300 instead of $1600.

04-22-2012, 10:09 AM   #350
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Lots of assumptions, some of them blatantly untrue (e.g. Ned never said he accepted all the comments, and he definitely approved polite "negative" posts). And he is correct, what is happening is (more or less) asking retailers to stick with MSRP.
I believe comments that e.g. calls him a liar should be censored. Ned is also very busy, so it's understandable if he can't read hundreds of comments and approve all of them (unless insulting).
#1: Ned never accepted my post and it was early the morning his blog appeared. #2: You are the one that likes to use the term liar and imply its use.
04-22-2012, 10:29 AM   #351
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#1: Read what I wrote. Did Ned ever said he accepted/will accept all comments? Nope, he didn't - as SteveM acknowledged.
#2: I assume you're talking about me calling showing many lenses on a roadmap but planning to release only few of them a "lie"; I stand by my words. Of course, my point is: Pentax didn't lied, so we should see those lenses on the market.
But this doesn't mean I like to use the term liar, or that I imply its use (or effectively use it) when it's not the case.
04-22-2012, 10:35 AM   #352
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
#1: Read what I wrote. Did Ned ever said he accepted/will accept all comments? Nope, he didn't - as SteveM acknowledged.
#2: I assume you're talking about me calling showing many lenses on a roadmap but planning to release only few of them a "lie"; I stand by my words. Of course, my point is: Pentax didn't lied, so we should see those lenses on the market.
But this doesn't mean I like to use the term liar, or that I imply its use (or effectively use it) when it's not the case.
I NEVER wrote they didn't plan to release anything on the road map. What I wrote was is that just because it is on the road map doesn't mean it will happen and if it does, the time frame isn't etched in stone. Nor did I say Ned had a 100% acceptance policy. What I countered is you claiming he didn't reject any. Furthermore, on Ned's old blog, he used to accept a lot more and the were also more diverse. Lastly, I don't agree that that things need to be censored based on your interpretations of things.
04-22-2012, 10:49 AM   #353
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Oh boy...
I never claimed Ned accepted all comments, nor did he. What I said - and this can be clearly seen, since you quoted me - is that he accepted "polite negative requests" (please be aware I'm not saying all of them).

I understand perfectly why he wants to read and approve comments, given all the angry messages and name calling (even from people not affected by the UPP).
IMHO he should disable the comments altogether, though.

You're right, you never said they didn't plan to release anything on the road map, but a thought crossed your mind - what if they'll stop after the 560mm?
It doesn't change anything.

04-22-2012, 11:48 AM - 1 Like   #354
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I wouldn't call old Ned a liar, but he did tell me several years ago to look for an update on the 540 and 360 flash manuals that would take into more consideration ...of all things....digital cameras. Well, I'm still looking years later....like I will be years from now for all those Mom & Pop stores that are thrilled to be carrying high priced Pentax products.
It may have a good side to it....each shop will need to hire more personnel to keep them dusted.
Regards!
04-22-2012, 12:14 PM - 1 Like   #355
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Oh boy...
. . .

You're right, you never said they didn't plan to release anything on the road map, but a thought crossed your mind - what if they'll stop after the 560mm?
It doesn't change anything.
Yes, there is a difference in a plan and the final result. There have been lenses on Pentax road maps in the past that never happened or took the better part of a decade. What I said wrote was that the 560 and DA 50/1.8 had protypes and were more likely to be released in 2013 or beyond. There haven't been in official announcements on any of the other lenses YET that I am aware of on the current road map. The 1.4x TC has been on and off and back on there for years even though there is a prototype and few people on here actually tried it out.

Edit: I don't even think the DA 35/2.4 AL ever showed up on a road map until after it was released and it showed up on the new one.

Last edited by Blue; 04-22-2012 at 12:30 PM.
04-22-2012, 01:11 PM   #356
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Lots of assumptions, some of them blatantly untrue (e.g. Ned never said he accepted all the comments, and he definitely approved polite "negative" posts). And he is correct, what is happening is (more or less) asking retailers to stick with MSRP.
I believe comments that e.g. calls him a liar should be censored. Ned is also very busy, so it's understandable if he can't read hundreds of comments and approve all of them (unless insulting).
I never once said that Ned had ever made the statement "he had posted all the he accepted all the comments".... in fact I clarified myself in a second post stating that it came from someone using the handle of "dgcom" and did not know his source.

You are the one making "assumptions" by stating "and he definitely approved polite "negative" posts", calling me a liar! So, what is your source? Did all of the posts made to Ned go thru You? So what are you saying? If I do not agree with Ned's or your opinion, I am not polite, a liar and my opinion should not be printed? Have you ever read the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution?

I was only trying to show the extreme hardship he had caused me personally... I had to both save for months and sell my Pentax 67 system to invest in the K-5 system, only to have the lenses put out of reach for me. I wish the drunk who ran me over as I walked down the sidewalk had insurance, but then there are a lot of people in dire hardship from the economy and such a radical price increase during a bad economy is not to anyone's benefit, period!!!!

The truth is that Ned's policies have hurt a lot of people who put their trust into Pentax to supply a quality reasonably price product......... with both Pentax's quality control issues and IQ issues being what they are, that is where Pentax should be focusing first if they want to increase sales.... that alone hurts sales severely and dealers wanting to handle Pentax.... bribing dealers with massive profits on each sale to look the other way is definitely not good for any company's future, let alone in the customer's benefit.

Telling retailers they have to sell at a specific price is illegal.... just ask "Apple". "MSRP" stands for "Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price", the key word is "Suggested"! Not a fixed price!

Oh by the way... censorship is a form of lying to the public.... and I am not the only one who was censored. My 3 "attempted" posts were made at the beginning of his blog and he has added many posts dated later than mine!

The bottom line... no matter how you rationalize the price fixing.... there are a lot of "devoted Pentaxians" who are hurt by it, period!
04-22-2012, 02:01 PM   #357
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Blue:
Sorry, but it's like we're talking different languages - however, I doubt my English is that bad. Please pay attention to what I write; it's very difficult - and, honestly, quite pointless - to discuss in this manner.
We weren't talking about not following the plans closely, were we? Stopping making K-mount lenses after the first 2 or 3 it's definitely far worse than that, it's far worse than cancelling a lens/TC.
And btw, besides the 40mm XS they have 3 lenses planned for this year; I doubt they wouldn't be able to launch at least one more.

Hoya stopped updating the roadmap in 2009.

StevenM:
You were hasty in accusing Ned, in your first post; it was easy to double-check if he said it or not and you did it, later. I never called you names, please don't put such words in my mouth. And, again: I never claimed he approved all posts, just that he didn't automatically removed negative ones.
For proof, just read the approved comments; many people are voicing concerns. Some quotes:
"Not the best way to inspire confidence and loyalty in your customers."
" I have invested in the Pentax system and now feel as if I can't afford to move forward."
"Pentax is simply not providing a compelling level of value at these prices"
"For every change there are winners and losers. Unfortunately I only see personal loss in this pricing policy."
and so on.
04-22-2012, 02:15 PM   #358
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You guys sound like the "debate" between French candidates for Presidency...
Maybe cool off a bit? Have a beer? OK OK I'll leave...
04-22-2012, 02:17 PM   #359
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Blue:
Sorry, but it's like we're talking different languages - however, I doubt my English is that bad. Please pay attention to what I write; it's very difficult - and, honestly, quite pointless - to discuss in this manner.
We weren't talking about not following the plans closely, were we? Stopping making K-mount lenses after the first 2 or 3 it's definitely far worse than that, it's far worse than cancelling a lens/TC.
And btw, besides the 40mm XS they have 3 lenses planned for this year; I doubt they wouldn't be able to launch at least one more.

Hoya stopped updating the roadmap in 2009.

.
A Road Map is not a guarantee of future lenses. It is a plan. However, you have either misunderstood or misconstrued what I wrote. As far as launched, they are still in the process of delivering the 40mm XS. The 560 and 50/1.8 were announced but no one in the public has handled those 2 yet. There is 1 announcement pending shortly.
04-22-2012, 03:11 PM   #360
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Blue:
Sorry, but it's like we're talking different languages - however, I doubt my English is that bad. Please pay attention to what I write; it's very difficult - and, honestly, quite pointless - to discuss in this manner.
We weren't talking about not following the plans closely, were we? Stopping making K-mount lenses after the first 2 or 3 it's definitely far worse than that, it's far worse than cancelling a lens/TC.
And btw, besides the 40mm XS they have 3 lenses planned for this year; I doubt they wouldn't be able to launch at least one more.

Hoya stopped updating the roadmap in 2009.

StevenM:
You were hasty in accusing Ned, in your first post; it was easy to double-check if he said it or not and you did it, later. I never called you names, please don't put such words in my mouth. And, again: I never claimed he approved all posts, just that he didn't automatically removed negative ones.
For proof, just read the approved comments; many people are voicing concerns. Some quotes:
"Not the best way to inspire confidence and loyalty in your customers."
" I have invested in the Pentax system and now feel as if I can't afford to move forward."
"Pentax is simply not providing a compelling level of value at these prices"
"For every change there are winners and losers. Unfortunately I only see personal loss in this pricing policy."
and so on.

This is my first post,

I just read on Ned's blog that "ALL" comments have been posted, NOT TRUE!
I just read on Ned's blog that "ALL" comments have been posted, even those critical of Pentax's new pricing policy... That is not remotely true!!!!!!

I submitted the following three times last week and it was not posted! Only slightly critical entries seem to appear!

"You might not see it as a "price increase", but the bottom line is that the price I must pay now is as much as double for a Pentax lens. My bottom line is now I can not afford to purchase Pentax lenses and Sigma now is looking damn good. I had been methodically building up my Pentax gear, but being disabled and on a very limited income I have been priced right out of the Pentax lens market. Besides why should I pay more for a product with an inferior warranty and often inferior performance?

If a camera store can not be competitive, why should the customer get the shaft by "subsidizing" their lack of competitiveness. You talk about making the Pentax product more available... I live 166 miles from the nearest camera store, which is in Boise and I'm unable to drive, plus live in a very small town in the mountains.... so how does this help me? So now I not only do I have to pay the same price online, but shipping charges on top of that!

If it had not been for B&H's fantastic service and prices, prior to this "price increase" I would not have taken the chance on purchasing Pentax in the first place with the often "spotty" quality control issues, along with poor warranty period.

Pentax has lost a customer and I'm sure that I'm not the only one in the same boat! There is no reason for a camera shop to make such a huge profit and it is rewarding both non-competitiveness and greed!"


Where did I even once name Ned as the source of:

"I just read on Ned's blog that "ALL" comments have been posted, even those critical of Pentax's new pricing policy... That is not remotely true!!!!!!"

In fact I re-posted to make sure it was very clear that not only was Ned not the source of the statement in the blog, but in fact it was and I quote myself, "the source is the last current entry made by "dgcom" making this claim.... I do not know if Ned has been making this claim himself.... I went to "dgcom" Twitter page to correct him, but it has not been active since the 25th of January. This is "dgcom" complete post, cut and pasted from Ned's blog, which I made it very clear that I was referring to:

"Hi, Ned. Appreciate that you approved all comments (even critical ones) and even found time to respond to them. I guess, you have better statistics on the requests for Pentax gear in retail compared to online, so I hope you know what you are doing.
But if people, who shop online, see significant price increase (relative to B&H, let's use it as "gold standard") it will make really bad impression...

I did though in fact claim my post had been censored by Ned, which is only obvious since it was never posted after 3 attempts the same day. If you read the statement made by/after pushing the "submit button" it states that "the post will not be made until after the OWNER of the blog, e.g. Ned, approves it"

So... if other posts were approved and posted way after my three attempts were made, besides being many days later now.... the one and only logical assumption which can be made is "Ned both censored and deleted my post... and/or he did not like my post as it showed how bad it actually effected the "Common Man" and/or Pentaxian."

Each attempt was the same exact post, which I cut and pasted from a document file... which is the exact same post I cut and pasted on this blog. Period! Case closed.

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