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04-18-2012, 08:04 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
You're considering a different set of circumstances than I was replying to.

Ned mentioned a large national account. Monochrome guessed Ritz.


Ritz is not worth it IMO. Like you inferred, this forum is not indicative of the market as a whole. Most people in the market, most camera buyers, don't step foot into a 'camera' store. I wish we had sales #'s but I'd guess that 95+% of US DSLR sales are either internet or big-box store.

I was thinking he meant Target, and then maybe a price raise is worth it for them. But then again, why on earth would you raise prices of DA*'s if you're selling a kit lens?
it has to be a multi tiered strategy. I agree DA* prices went too far. I also think they will adjust. But you have to adnmit the previous prices on DA8 were ridiculously low based on what the competition sells similar lenses for (ie nikon 17-55 2.8 or the Canon 17-55 2.8) I think the 16-50 will probably settle back to 1099-1199 eventually with rebates of $100-200 sporadically to drive volume in key selling seasons - the same way Nikon does it actually)

04-18-2012, 08:07 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
it has to be a multi tiered strategy. I agree DA* prices went too far. I also think they will adjust. But you have to adnmit the previous prices on DA8 were ridiculously low based on what the competition sells similar lenses for (ie nikon 17-55 2.8 or the Canon 17-55 2.8) I think the 16-50 will probably settle back to 1099-1199 eventually with rebates of $100-200 sporadically to drive volume in key selling seasons - the same way Nikon does it actually)
The DA* 16-50mm was just too much of an sdm risk at > $500 coupled with a 1 year warranty and crappy support. At $1000 and slow support on a 1 year warranty puts that into a small claims suite.
04-18-2012, 08:08 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Ritz is not worth it IMO
Here is a resource to research every camera store and chain in the US and Canada. If Pentax is moving away from the BigBox strategy why would they want to add Target (step-up as they are within BigBox distribution stores)?
04-18-2012, 08:09 AM   #34
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Ricoh's plan: Compete against Pentax owners cashing out

Ricoh's plan: Raise prices and then they compete against Pentax owners cashing out of their own used Pentax lenses.
We all made money with this price spike.


We all benefit by the high price increases when we sell our Pentax lenses to fund our buying into another camera brand. Staying with the Ricoh brand will truly cost us all more. Added price, no added value today.

Ricoh killed off K Mount once before. Would it be impossible for them to travel down the same path again ?

I still think Ricoh bought Pentax for the Q and 645D and Patents. The K Mount System was simply bundled into the purchase, just like it was when Hoya bought out all of Pentax Corporation in 2008.

Atleast Hoya spent some cash on the K Mount before selling off the brand to Ricoh.











QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
My theory on the prices: Pentax intend to replace most of these lenses over coming quarters (say 12 quarters or three years). At these price points the replacement lenses will have better waranties, batter AF motors - whatever faults we think the current lenses have. In so doing they could raise the wholesale prices (narrow the marging) and justify the retail price - so they're establihing their "Price Bands" now and will correct the "Value Bands" going forward.

Of course, many of you will argue they should have kept the prices as they were and raised prices when introducing new, improved lenses. Perhaps - but IMHO that would just extended the "angst" period for years instead of weeks.

Just a thought. And Ricoh does have a plan.


04-18-2012, 08:10 AM   #35
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price increase easily get forgotten, but price reductions (in the form of rebates) will attract lots of sustained interest because people want a 'bargain'
04-18-2012, 08:11 AM   #36
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I understand what Ned is saying in terms of growing Pentax's retail business. It makes perfect sense and I don't blame them. But as a practical point, there won't be much Pentax equipment that I can afford any longer. Perhaps I'll pick up the inexpensive DA 50mm f/1.8 when it comes out. But, after that, I'm pretty much done. No, I'm not threatening to sell off all my Pentax gear right away - I still enjoy it very much. But when my K-5 reaches the end of its service life, perhaps it will be time to sell off my lenses at that point.

Mind you, I'll wait and see how things shake out. If Pentax's new products are substantially improved and don't go higher in price from this point (there's no way the DA* 16-50 is worth the current asking price) and there are some truly substantial rebates offered periodically (but $100 won't be enough on a $1000+ lens or even an $800 lens), perhaps it'll all work out. But I suspect my Pentax kit may be as complete as it's going to get. I'm not angry as much as resigned to reality. Perhaps micro four-thirds now represents the value proposition that Pentax offered for so long.
04-18-2012, 08:13 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
If you support inferior products at high prices, then yes, I guess you'd be happy with this.
If you really believe that, why are you even here? Why shoot this brand if you feel they're inferior?

QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Pentax may have studied this and ran calculations before setting the new prices. The outcome of those calculations may have been that sales at existing USA dealers (B&H, Adorama, Amazon) decrease a little while sales at B&M dealers increase a lot. If the total sales increase then Pentax makes more money at the same wholesale prices.
You can be sure they ran simulations and did a lot of research before deciding this. The U.S. has been a small portion of their market for a lot of years now, made worse by Hoya's utter lack of interest in promoting growth in the U.S.

Pentax, if they have any sense at all, is considering the markets where they do make most of their sales, and understandably want to prevent the U.S. sellers from screwing that up.
04-18-2012, 08:13 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by parsons Quote
price increase easily get forgotten, but price reductions (in the form of rebates) will attract lots of sustained interest because people want a 'bargain'
Yep, Short term pain for longer term gain for Pentax. AFAIAC it's a wise move but time will tell

04-18-2012, 08:13 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
You're considering a different set of circumstances than I was replying to.

Ned mentioned a large national account. Monochrome guessed Ritz.


Ritz is not worth it IMO. Like you inferred, this forum is not indicative of the market as a whole. Most people in the market, most camera buyers, don't step foot into a 'camera' store. I wish we had sales #'s but I'd guess that 95+% of US DSLR sales are either internet or big-box store.

I was thinking he meant Target, and then maybe a price raise is worth it for them. But then again, why on earth would you raise prices of DA*'s if you're selling a kit lens?
Ritz/Wolf barely survived coming out of the bankruptcy and they lost many stores, including the 2 here in Tallahassee. I really don't see how making the Brick and Mortar stores that have been around since the 70s that did mail order and phone, adapted to the internet age should be penalized to prop up a mythical network. At the end of the day, the Ricoh boys have to compete with Nikon, Canon, Sony etc. Doing it at MSRP on DA* with 1 year warranties is laughable. Maybe that strategy could have saved Kodak.
04-18-2012, 08:14 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
If you support inferior products at high prices, then yes, I guess you'd be happy with this.
I'm perfectly happy with paying for my Pentax lenses, because I reckon they are worth it. If you think they're inferior, then feel free to switch brands, but there are plenty of people out there who think Pentax glass is high quality.

I honestly can't see a downside to this. Pentax get more visibility in B&M stores, retailers get better margins and users end up with more money to spare because they can't afford to spend it all on lenses :P
04-18-2012, 08:14 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Ricoh killed off K Mount once before. Would it be impossible for them to travel down the same path again ?
how did they do that then?

doing that would be complete suicide besides.
pentax is nothing without k-mount IMO

the compact primes are the main thing going for pentax.
without K-mount there is 645 and Q - neither are a mass market product why would they buy Pentax for that if they want any sort of profit!?
04-18-2012, 08:14 AM   #42
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Frankly, I think this is a great idea. The main problem with the Pentax brand is that nobody knows it exists. It's been a running joke that Pentax marketing is non-existent anywhere but in photography circles. Well, most of those people have already picked their brand. I am hoping that the retailer Pentax gets into is Target or that they start selling camera's in-store at Walmart. If the KR had been in-store at Walmart, sitting next to the entry-level Rebel and Nikon 3100/5100 I think that people would have really compared them instead of blindly going for the CaNikons.

If this is coupled with generous lens rebates, I think that Pentax has a bright future. Regardless of our whining, Pentax needs to make money to survive. Part of that strategy is getting the equipment in front of the lay people and that won't happen unless retailers feel that they can compete.
04-18-2012, 08:16 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
I still think Ricoh bought Pentax for the Q and 645D and Patents. The K Mount System was simply bundled into the purchase, just like it was when Hoya bought out all of Pentax Corporation in 2008. Hoya aleast spent some cash on the K Mount before selling off the brand to Ricoh
Really? They spent $115,000,000 for a tiny mirrorless, a 10,000-Unit, $10,000 MF and some patents?

Then they showed a new K-mount (different) MILC, promised new lenses in K-mount and ceased disturbing their global dealer network by allowing US retailers to exploit the gray market overseas?

They're protecting their established non-US markets against cannibalism by US online retailers as much as they're rebuilding the US.

AFA K-mount goes - OK - but be sure to bundle an adapter with contacts. If it works like the old crippled KAF-2 or -3, BFD.
04-18-2012, 08:16 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Yep, Short term pain for longer term gain for Pentax. AFAIAC it's a wise move but time will tell
Seems that current dealers will make more money on the stock that they have although most of them are actually low or out of stock. How is that actually going to help Pentax? Is Ricoh going to run them as a loss leader for a while?
04-18-2012, 08:18 AM   #45
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Help retailers? When I talk with online salesmen, they never tell me that Pentax products are jumping off their shelves.....in fact the opposite is more often mentioned. How anyone thinks doubling the prices will help retailers is not in tune with reality. Is there anyone here....anyone....speak up....that has seen the new prices and said to themselves, "Wow!, look at that increase, now is the time for me to buy!" If so, are you the same one that sees the high gas prices and decides on a longer driving vacation, or taking the long way to work?
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