Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-01-2012, 04:04 PM   #496
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,791
QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
The market history of photography is one of multiple cameras per household.

05-01-2012, 08:20 PM   #497
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 3,108
QuoteOriginally posted by Kryscendo Quote
Just throwing this out there guys, but Unilateral pricing was made up to streamline a brand for retailers. This way, people that work retail can work on helping the customer find the right product and the right solution for them instead of wasting time trying to find out what websites to price match or to convince folks that not paying taxes isn't a freebie. Imagine how easy it makes it for someone to walk into a store and they know that the price is the same more or less everywhere. The customers then can look at spec sheets instead of amazon price charts.

This all being said, in our situation, we are bitter because unilateral pricing seems to mean right now: Everything except cameras at MSRP- which even other brands that have Unilateral Pricing Policies, they have sales, discounts and promos galore.
You have a much higher opinion of sales staff than I do. Most retail employees are useless to me because they are often poorly informed on the products, profits can motivate them to sell the wrong product to me, and it's infeasible for them to spend enough time with me to learn my photography needs before having to help the next customer. The spec sheets posted on tech products, cameras included, in stores like Target and Best Buy often have typos that completely distort the product specs. Sometimes I'll see the spec sheets for similar items swapped so the wrong sheet is under the wrong product.

Most of us on PF already know more about cameras/photography than typical retail staff who are selling the cameras. Small specialty stores might have experts but I don't think you'll find one in a typical large retail chain store.
05-01-2012, 11:34 PM   #498
Veteran Member
Smeggypants's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,536
QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
On what planet? Ned would be stoned by a mob imo.
Disagree. Most people in my experience would rather someone owned up and admitted they told an untruth than keep up the pretence further.
05-02-2012, 01:05 AM - 2 Likes   #499
Senior Member
Kryscendo's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 223
QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
You have a much higher opinion of sales staff than I do. Most retail employees are useless to me because they are often poorly informed on the products, profits can motivate them to sell the wrong product to me, and it's infeasible for them to spend enough time with me to learn my photography needs before having to help the next customer. The spec sheets posted on tech products, cameras included, in stores like Target and Best Buy often have typos that completely distort the product specs. Sometimes I'll see the spec sheets for similar items swapped so the wrong sheet is under the wrong product.

Most of us on PF already know more about cameras/photography than typical retail staff who are selling the cameras. Small specialty stores might have experts but I don't think you'll find one in a typical large retail chain store.
I'm a salesperson at Best Buy and as an employee of a store that is in the top 100 in the company, I feel like I should say a few things because you are painting a different picture than the one I see almost every day of the week.

First off. Useless to you may not be useless to the soccer mom looking for an entry level DSLR to get closer to the action. It depends on the needs. Big box stores like Best Buy aren't the best for high end, killer professional specialized equipment. If you want a Yashica to Pentax Q lens adapater, B&H will have it. Best Buy will not.

If an employee doesn't have an answer, they should always say so and offer to look it up. Sad truth is, Photography still has barriers to entry, even to their salespeople, they can be arcane magic boxes. However, if all goes well, it goes really fricking well! It actually amazes me when customers kindly decline another associate's offer for assistance and say "Is he the camera guy? I'll wait for him." while I do a demo on a different DSLR for a different customer. Doing demos is critical because if the customer doesn't know what they are getting, they will just return it or exchange it.

I can only say for Best Buy, we list Optical Zoom, Megapixels, Video Resolution, and usually one other stand out feature on our little cards. For example, Samsung favors Micro-SD cards for their new P&S so their at BB, we list that. Those very same cards say to the customer, "Hey, ask our sales staff because there is more to me than just Megapixels..." As far as missing tags or tags from wrong objects, I can't think of the last time I saw a product with the wrong tag on it. I know it happens and sometimes I see tags lying around as customers like to take them or read them up close, but the display items move around so slowly, associates know where they go. I can go down the line and name off every camera in my store's isle one by one from memory.

Also, we aren't given information about what is more 'profitable.' Obviously, selling a protection plan is more profitable than not selling one, but there is no "Oh, he's suggesting this Lowepro backpack because it makes them the most money..."

I'd also like to acknowledge that some stores simply don't ask enough or the right questions. They just do good, better, best, and leave people to decide for themselves which is terrible for business. Think about it! Someone has $800, they may come into my store for a Canon T3i which goes for $799. "Great! I'm done, thanks!" Wrong! Talking with that customer and getting to know their needs, well- if they want to do some sports photography, they may want to go with a T2i bundle which comes with the 50-250mm lens for $799. I know this is old fashioned, but if the employee isn't asking any questions, they probably won't be there very long.

Again, you are looking through this through your eyes, the trained eyes of an expert. Most people aren't experts. I don't like the fact that the Unilateral Pricing has put those DA* lenses out of my price range, but I understand why they did it. I just hope they start putting out some rebates and sales. For the consumer though, it means "Oh, this lens costs this much everywhere..." and they move on and consider other things like "Well, what is it like shooting with a Macro lens?" and Mr. Salesman can show them. For you and I, we prefer places like B&H because we know what we want and don't need the salesman. But you and I aren't the majority when it comes to cameras.

Sorry, this post ended up being waaaaay longer than I anticipated, but hopefully it is a better understanding of what goes on from a retail perspective. And before you all go suggesting I've been drinking the Kool-aid, I can't tell you how many customers have come back to my store to personally thank me for helping me with their cameras.

05-02-2012, 01:20 AM   #500
Pentaxian
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,995
QuoteOriginally posted by Kryscendo Quote
I'm a salesperson at Best Buy and as an employee of a store that is in the top 100 in the company, I feel like I should say a few things because you are painting a different picture than the one I see almost every day of the week. ...
+1 +!!! A very helpful post. There are similar stores and chains where I live and so this sounds very familiar, though some have gotten a bad rep over the past few years by overselling the protection plan stuff. It's highly profitable but folks often don't really need it.

I guess Pentax is a very Japanese and also a very conservative outfit. They like to do some things differently - the Q or K-01, e.g. - but the same two qualities apply. Perhaps that's the key to understanding the Pentax approach. In a way, it's a pity they don't make more of it in how they present themselves. Not everyone would like such qualities of course, but they do stand out quite distinctly in a sea of bland, samey stuff and you can't say that of many companies.
05-02-2012, 01:41 AM   #501
Senior Member
Kryscendo's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 223
I will say this, a crummy employee is a crummy employee. It doesn't matter where they work- if they don't give a crap, it will show to the customer and it will show in their stores performance. I absolutely baby my customers and spoil them rotten. I crack jokes, share stories, do a bit of show and tell with photo shoots I've loaded up on my phone. In return, my customers come back time and again.

Best Buy itself is a pretty decent place for people. We do carry cheap, but good lens filters, we've got some stupid good tripods for cheap, and its always nice seeing a camera bag in person. We're also not on commission so people don't get fiery over sales. Need to talk it over with the Mrs? Sure, here's a print out on your camera, the sale ends Saturday, we'll see you then!

Oh, and a quick work on the protection plans.... people need them. Maybe not you or I who lovingly caress our equipment everyday and I know people think they are huge scams or a waste of money or whatever, but I have at least one customer devastated weekly. A broken lens, non functioning AF motor, dropped body, dead batteries- I've seen it all and it isn't a pretty sight. Well, what do they do? Its weeks before they can afford a new lens or repair costs, but I had a student with a broken D7000 that was begging for advice. I just told them about the home owners insurance thing.

On the other hand, I've seen about 5 or 6 broken/scratched UV filters so my advice is working. Use protection people!
05-02-2012, 06:10 AM   #502
Site Supporter
Greeneg's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC United States
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 146
Thanks, Kryscendo, for sharing your thoughts, I've found the posts very thoughtful and helpful.

Best Regards,
05-02-2012, 06:36 AM   #503
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 24,255
I keep reading over here....and still come up with the same questions about old Ned's business explanation.....

*Is anyone excited that lens prices have in some cases doubled, just so Pentax can get a few Optios in Target Stores?
*Is there any serious shooter here that thinks of Target when they think camera gear?
*If Mom & Pop Stores can barely sell a Pentax lens every so often at $700, they will get all excited to sell even fewer at $1500?

Just looking at the financials on Ricoh, I'd say this is more about them being in a red ink bind and grabbing at straws to find a way out. In most cases where this is done, the red ink multiplies instead of decreases. After all, the only one to gain is the Retailer...if he sells a Pentax lens. If he was selling one a month and now sells one every three months, where is his gain?
Hoya was camera ignorant.......maybe Ricoh is too? I will buy Sigma and Tamron, better prices, better warranties. I just hope they keep making K mount lenses....I see them slowing down in that area. Maybe they know more than we do?

Regards!

05-02-2012, 06:54 AM   #504
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,709
*Is anyone excited that lens prices have in some cases doubled, just so Pentax can get a few Optios in Target Stores?
The question does not make sense; obviously, they didn't applied UPP on lenses to sell Optios.
No lens price doubled, by the way (in one case it was close to 90% increase)

*Is there any serious shooter here that thinks of Target when they think camera gear?
Not-so-serious shooters (even those downright funny ones) buys camera gear, too.

*If Mom & Pop Stores can barely sell a Pentax lens every so often at $700, they will get all excited to sell even fewer at $1500?
I'm not sure about Mom & Pop, but B&M camera stores could start selling Pentax lenses again, if they don't have to compete on price with the cheapest online retailers (as before UPP). At $1500? Probably not, but prices can and IMHO will be adjusted if the products aren't selling.

And what you're seeing is the effect of the pre-Ricoh (i.e. Hoya) policy. It's strange that you're blaming Pentax Ricoh for that...
05-02-2012, 07:04 AM   #505
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,892
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The question does not make sense; obviously, they didn't applied UPP on lenses to sell Optios.
I disagree, that appears to be the case. Target is now demanding all of their retailers have a UPP to protect against internet sales, and Pentax just got a contract with Target.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-photography-industry/184522-targe...mands-upp.html

Perhaps Pentax won't enforce the UPP against items that aren't sold at Target, and prices will increase. But for now, we are paying more for a 60-250 because Target is selling Optios.
05-02-2012, 07:16 AM   #506
Forum Member




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 57
Just as I was finally ready to pull the trigger and buy the 15mm pancake lens, the price shot up from $505 to $649. However you cut it, this is Ricoh/Pentax saying "screw you" to its customers. This is not the way a company with an already-small (relatively speaking) customer base should behave. I've been a Pentax-person since my first Spotmatic in the 1970s, and I've resisted the temptation to move to Nikon/Canon all this time... and this is how the new Pentax says "thanks." I have a lot of money invested in Pentax gear at this point -- and I'm absolutely LOVING my K-5 -- but the time will eventually come to buy a new body, and at that point, I'll think again. Are you paying attention, Ned? Think of this message and multiply it by many, many thousands.
05-02-2012, 07:25 AM   #507
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,709
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
But for now, we are paying more for a 60-250 because Target is selling Optios.
That does seem slightly illogical; how would UPP applied on the 60-250 help Pentax to get Optios on B&M stores? Or for Pentax to destroy their high-end product sales, just to move more low end, razor thin margins (if there is any) point&shoots?
Unless some reasonable explanation is provided, I'd rather believe UPP will affect the products they're applied to.
05-02-2012, 07:29 AM   #508
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Indiana
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 15,344
QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I keep reading over here....and still come up with the same questions about old Ned's business explanation.....

*Is anyone excited that lens prices have in some cases doubled, just so Pentax can get a few Optios in Target Stores?
*Is there any serious shooter here that thinks of Target when they think camera gear?
*If Mom & Pop Stores can barely sell a Pentax lens every so often at $700, they will get all excited to sell even fewer at $1500?

Just looking at the financials on Ricoh, I'd say this is more about them being in a red ink bind and grabbing at straws to find a way out. In most cases where this is done, the red ink multiplies instead of decreases. After all, the only one to gain is the Retailer...if he sells a Pentax lens. If he was selling one a month and now sells one every three months, where is his gain?
Hoya was camera ignorant.......maybe Ricoh is too? I will buy Sigma and Tamron, better prices, better warranties. I just hope they keep making K mount lenses....I see them slowing down in that area. Maybe they know more than we do?

Regards!
I think Kunzite answered your questions, but I will say a couple of things. If Mom and Pop stores make ten dollars of profit on a 700 dollar sale, but that is the price they "have to" sell at because online dealers are priced there, they will not carry Pentax. If they can make a couple of hundred dollars on a lens priced at 900 dollars, they will be more likely to stock it, even if they only sell one a quarter.

The whole Target thing is not a bad thing, not sure how you could spin it that way. I have said for a long time that I wished Pentax could get the kr cameras, or K-01 cameras into Walmart or equivalent stores. Sure, they aren't stores you think about when you think of cameras, but they are ubiquitous. The closest "camera" store to my small town is over 60 miles away. The closest Best Buy is the same distance. There are Walmarts and Targets much closer. If you can build a base, you can build the brand.

Finally, people buy lenses based on perceived need. Obviously, the higher you price your lenses, the longer people have to save to get one, but from Ricoh's standpoint, they just need to make certain that there are lenses available at different price points. There will always be people who are willing to drop a thousand dollars on an FA limited quality of lens. These are the big draws to Pentax, anyway, not the DA * zooms, which are so-so compared to other brands offerings.
05-02-2012, 07:31 AM - 1 Like   #509
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,909
The rationale for UPP, an accepted and legitimate product pricing strategy and channel management strategy has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that the effect of UPP on our actual cost of Pentax gear, taking into account waiting to purchase when items are on promtional pricing, won't be known to us for many months has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that both Nikon and Canon have a UPP strategy has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that third-party lens manufacturers might now release some of their better lenses in K-mount has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that Pentax's wholesale price is unknown to us so we cannot say whether Pentax makes more, less or the same money under UPP has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that Pentax sells Optio WG's to consumers and dSLR's to enthusiasts and pro's and mid-range dSLR's and K-01's to tweeners - and they sell them in different channels - has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that American online retailers (and thus Pentax USA) were actually competing with European and Australian retailers, (and thus Pentax Europe and the Australian Distributor) has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that America was the source of much of the gray market supply of Pentax products and that UPP is a strategy to close the gray market has been explained many times on this thread.

Yet some posters continue to focus on the fact that the street price for a lens they never intended to purchase has risen to Pentax's published, intended and desired MSRP price.

Here. I'll say it:

Pentax caused the prices of their lenses in the USA retail channel to rise.

We all know why that happened. We all hope Pentax thrives as a result of this step, which is one step of many to come in Ricoh's plan. We all know we simply must wait and see what happens between now and the 2nd quarter 2013.

So post away - but you're not adding anything.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-02-2012 at 07:55 AM.
05-02-2012, 07:38 AM   #510
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,211
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I disagree, that appears to be the case. Target is now demanding all of their retailers have a UPP to protect against internet sales, and Pentax just got a contract with Target.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-photography-industry/184522-targe...mands-upp.html

Perhaps Pentax won't enforce the UPP against items that aren't sold at Target, and prices will increase. But for now, we are paying more for a 60-250 because Target is selling Optios.
this is a good point, I would add though the UPP may help them open up proper dealers who previously declined due to the web pricing. Thing is they need to get in a lot more stores if they want people beyond a small group to buy into the brand. Target may have forced the issue, but it will have wider benefits. Up here currently the issue is more supply, I was in my favourite store (who lists the full apsc and 645 lineup online) and he hardly had any supply, he mentioned he didn't expect full assortments and strong presence on the floor until late august (and he didn't confirm or deny a FF body but smiled when I brought it up )
Apparently he is also having major issues on body supply with Nikon and Sony (and to some degree Canon) as well. Many lenses have been in short supply as well. apparently this is still a side effect of the disasters in Japan and Thailand (my guess is the US is also getting preferential shipment versus canada due to the larger market) this month for instance he got a whole 2 D800 bodies and has 35 orders from long standing clients
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
channel, lens, lens prices, marketplace, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, photo, price, prices, u.s
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
lens strategy/thoughts ? rtpguy Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 24 11-30-2011 09:35 AM
My lens strategy (not a which one to buy thread) jerryleejr Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 11 09-21-2011 01:08 AM
Pentax UK's responses to my K-5 questions adamfogerty Pentax News and Rumors 8 10-22-2010 12:36 AM
Ned Bunnel interview at Photokina - K-5, K-r, Pentax strategy etc rawr Pentax News and Rumors 50 10-13-2010 06:15 PM
Looking at the current lens lineup, ISO seems to be Pentax strategy. Reportage Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 21 10-05-2010 02:28 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:09 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top