Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-02-2012, 07:56 AM   #511
Pentaxian
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,115
QuoteOriginally posted by starstuff Quote
Just as I was finally ready to pull the trigger and buy the 15mm pancake lens, the price shot up from $505 to $649. However you cut it, this is Ricoh/Pentax saying "screw you" to its customers. This is not the way a company with an already-small (relatively speaking) customer base should behave. I've been a Pentax-person since my first Spotmatic in the 1970s, and I've resisted the temptation to move to Nikon/Canon all this time... and this is how the new Pentax says "thanks." I have a lot of money invested in Pentax gear at this point -- and I'm absolutely LOVING my K-5 -- but the time will eventually come to buy a new body, and at that point, I'll think again. Are you paying attention, Ned? Think of this message and multiply it by many, many thousands.
$649? Lol, you are very fortunate. Where I live in Europe the price of a DA 15mm is GBP 569 or USD $920 inc. taxes - yes, 920 bucks. And I suspect the trend may be continued rises for all Japanese brands (it's not only a Pentax thing). If you really really want a lens, get it if you can because in 3-5 years it may, in retrospect, seem a bargain even at current prices. A proviso may be to introduce some future-proofing by splashing out big money only on FF-compatible lenses, in case APS-C starts to fade away.

BTW, I am not trying to justify the recent price hikes or the way they were handled. If I lived States side, I'd be mighty hacked off.

05-02-2012, 08:10 AM   #512
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Eureka, CA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,976
QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Is anyone excited that lens prices have in some cases doubled, just so Pentax can get a few Optios in Target Stores?
Well, if it is only Optios, but that's unlikely to be the case. We'll probably be seeing a low-end WR DSLR (e.g., an updated K200D) along with the kit WR zooms and maybe even the 18-135. These are products that are unique to Pentax, and it makes sense to try to get them in stores where they will get wider exposure. It's unfortunate that in order to get this deal Pentax had to expose their U.S. customers to such immense sticker shock. But if they're serious about taking on Canon and Nikon, they are going to have to take risks like this. If it doesn't work they can go back to old pricing model and try something else.
05-02-2012, 08:35 AM   #513
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
That does seem slightly illogical; how would UPP applied on the 60-250 help Pentax to get Optios on B&M stores? Or for Pentax to destroy their high-end product sales, just to move more low end, razor thin margins (if there is any) point&shoots?
Unless some reasonable explanation is provided, I'd rather believe UPP will affect the products they're applied to.
I agree it's not logical. Of course it's not logical that Pentax wouldn't advertise the K-01 on their website when it's announced.

Part of the problem is that UPP's have only been legal for the past 5 years or so, and to a layman are really only quasi-legal because a lot of what you think would be in a contract really isn't allowed.

So Target demands a UPP. Only certain things are allowed to be included UPP's contract-wise, and you can't really have repercussions to the retailer other than stopping sales to them. You aren't even allowed to warn the retailer. So right now it appears as if the UPP does NOT say 'Optios aren't allowed to be sold for less than $X, but DA*'s are'. I'm not sure if a clause like that would be legal or not.

Of course you should ignore all of this because I'm just regurgitating probably-wrong internet-information.
05-02-2012, 08:40 AM   #514
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Yet some posters continue to focus on the fact that the street price for a lens they never intended to purchase has risen to Pentax's published, intended and desired MSRP price.
Huh? There's been many posters that have said they were planning on purchasing soon but have now changed plans. There definitely has been intent.

05-02-2012, 09:01 AM   #515
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,426
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Huh? There's been many posters that have said they were planning on purchasing soon but have now changed plans. There definitely has been intent.
So they say. He who hesitates is lost. I learned that the time Hoya raised the prices.
05-02-2012, 09:27 AM   #516
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,327
"He who hesitates is lost" - I like that

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I agree it's not logical. Of course it's not logical that Pentax wouldn't advertise the K-01 on their website when it's announced.
If Pentax USA doesn't advertise the K-01, which is seemingly illogical, it doesn't means they would do other illogical things (I see the K-01 it's now on their frontpage... so we're talking about a delay?)

You're still not very convincing, that Pentax implemented UPP on all their range only for some lowly, loss-making Optios.
05-02-2012, 09:45 AM   #517
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
So they say. He who hesitates is lost. I learned that the time Hoya raised the prices.
Sure. I bought my lenses before Pentax Fool's Day. Of course that doesn't mean that I feel good about the higher prices overall.

I respect your argument but I still think it was a mistake for the brand, primarily due to the (surprise, surprise) poor execution.
05-02-2012, 09:49 AM   #518
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
"He who hesitates is lost" - I like that


If Pentax USA doesn't advertise the K-01, which is seemingly illogical, it doesn't means they would do other illogical things (I see the K-01 it's now on their frontpage... so we're talking about a delay?)

You're still not very convincing, that Pentax implemented UPP on all their range only for some lowly, loss-making Optios.

A) Target announced that they demand 'internet-proof' pricing
B) Pentax announced internet-proof pricing
C) Pentax announced deal with Target during explanation of internet-proof pricing

For the record I'm not asking you to be convinced; I'm telling you that *I* am convinced. Also for the record I agree that it doesn't make sense to hold DA* lenses hostage, and I think this was part of the poor execution.

05-02-2012, 09:50 AM   #519
Inactive Account




Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 202
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The rationale for UPP, an accepted and legitimate product pricing strategy and channel management strategy has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that the effect of UPP on our actual cost of Pentax gear, taking into account waiting to purchase when items are on promtional pricing, won't be known to us for many months has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that both Nikon and Canon have a UPP strategy has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that third-party lens manufacturers might now release some of their better lenses in K-mount has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that Pentax's wholesale price is unknown to us so we cannot say whether Pentax makes more, less or the same money under UPP has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that Pentax sells Optio WG's to consumers and dSLR's to enthusiasts and pro's and mid-range dSLR's and K-01's to tweeners - and they sell them in different channels - has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that American online retailers (and thus Pentax USA) were actually competing with European and Australian retailers, (and thus Pentax Europe and the Australian Distributor) has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that America was the source of much of the gray market supply of Pentax products and that UPP is a strategy to close the gray market has been explained many times on this thread.

Yet some posters continue to focus on the fact that the street price for a lens they never intended to purchase has risen to Pentax's published, intended and desired MSRP price.

Here. I'll say it:

Pentax caused the prices of their lenses in the USA retail channel to rise.

We all know why that happened. We all hope Pentax thrives as a result of this step, which is one step of many to come in Ricoh's plan. We all know we simply must wait and see what happens between now and the 2nd quarter 2013.

So post away - but you're not adding anything.

Bravo! 35 pages of the same arguments and reasoning.

JUST maybe Pentax DID give this whole strategy a bit of thought? We all get it - NO ONE likes paying more...I am pretty sure Pentax knew that. Just have to figure they thought, ALL things considered, for SOME reason(s) it would be better for Pentax in the long run?

Hey...maybe they are wrong. Maybe there really will be loss of enough people who won't/can't/refuse to spend even $140 more on a lens to put them out of business. And just maybe Pentax, if they realize that is indeed the case, won't do anything about it before it gets too late (not likely).
05-02-2012, 09:51 AM   #520
Loyal Site Supporter
Rupert's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 25,005
When you start seeing Pentax products in real Camera Stores in America (what "real" camera stores are left) and in the same supply you can get on the internet, then I will believe. When you can do that, you can also tell me about the flying cows....because that is even more likely.

If Pentax has any real chance to compete, it will be on the internet. Camera Stores are heavily slanted toward Canon or Nikon...or both. Somehow, you are thinking that Ford would want to start carrying Chevrolets in its showrooms to compete......and at the same prices? Shop owners carry what sells, what has the best and broadest advertising, and what is in demand. Increasing prices on a slow selling product never increases sales......just in fairy tales spun out by the "believers".
Regards
05-02-2012, 09:59 AM   #521
Inactive Account




Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 202
And so it continues...
05-02-2012, 10:02 AM   #522
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,230
QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
When you start seeing Pentax products in real Camera Stores in America (what "real" camera stores are left) and in the same supply you can get on the internet, then I will believe. When you can do that, you can also tell me about the flying cows....because that is even more likely.

If Pentax has any real chance to compete, it will be on the internet. Camera Stores are heavily slanted toward Canon or Nikon...or both. Somehow, you are thinking that Ford would want to start carrying Chevrolets in its showrooms to compete......and at the same prices? Shop owners carry what sells, what has the best and broadest advertising, and what is in demand. Increasing prices on a slow selling product never increases sales......just in fairy tales spun out by the "believers".
Regards
For the last five years, Pentax has been "competing" on the internet, with lower prices and no local availability and it hasn't worked. I don't know that this will work, but certainly that was unsuccessful.
05-02-2012, 10:09 AM   #523
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,270
QuoteOriginally posted by jmg257 Quote
And so it continues...
It's now an infinite loop

maybe it's time to hit Control Alt Del



05-02-2012, 10:56 AM - 1 Like   #524
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,426
QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
When you start seeing Pentax products in real Camera Stores in America (what "real" camera stores are left) and in the same supply you can get on the internet, then I will believe. When you can do that, you can also tell me about the flying cows....because that is even more likely.

If Pentax has any real chance to compete, it will be on the internet. Camera Stores are heavily slanted toward Canon or Nikon...or both. Somehow, you are thinking that Ford would want to start carrying Chevrolets in its showrooms to compete......and at the same prices? Shop owners carry what sells, what has the best and broadest advertising, and what is in demand. Increasing prices on a slow selling product never increases sales......just in fairy tales spun out by the "believers".
Regards


I am merely a sober, rational observer of business practices, and have been for 35 years. Whatever fairy tales you believe are yours to believe, as you will.


Where you find a Nikon and a Canon, Pentax wants there to be a competing Pentax product, wherever that is. Tell me there aren't B&M stores that have Nikon and Canon bodies and lenses in stock, to be held and purchased, and I will accept your fairy tale.
  1. Pentax competes well enough in many markets, globally.
  2. America is a comparatively small Pentax market-share market, globally
  3. America was hurting Pentax's larger market-share markets, globally
  4. What we think about their effort to protect their more important markets from us doesn't really matter to Pentax, globally.
  5. Pentax absolutely did not install UPP in order to distribute Optio WG-2's in Target.
  6. With UPP in place for all the other reasons Target accepted the new product distribution.
  7. Americans don't like not being the most important, globally, at anything
  8. So now we feel what the rest of the world has felt for 70 years
This is the right move for Pentax, globally.
Pentax USA had better execute today or Pentax USA will have new executives tomorrow.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-04-2012 at 08:01 AM.
05-02-2012, 11:06 AM   #525
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Perrineville, NJ
Posts: 1,365
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
For the last five years, Pentax has been "competing" on the internet, with lower prices and no local availability and it hasn't worked. I don't know that this will work, but certainly that was unsuccessful.
+1.

Well said.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
channel, lens, lens prices, marketplace, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, photo, price, prices, u.s
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
lens strategy/thoughts ? rtpguy Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 24 11-30-2011 09:35 AM
My lens strategy (not a which one to buy thread) jerryleejr Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 11 09-21-2011 01:08 AM
Pentax UK's responses to my K-5 questions adamfogerty Pentax News and Rumors 8 10-22-2010 12:36 AM
Ned Bunnel interview at Photokina - K-5, K-r, Pentax strategy etc rawr Pentax News and Rumors 50 10-13-2010 06:15 PM
Looking at the current lens lineup, ISO seems to be Pentax strategy. Reportage Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 21 10-05-2010 02:28 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:10 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top