Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-02-2012, 10:03 PM - 1 Like   #541
Veteran Member
Smeggypants's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,536
QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
And if they cannot buy it online for less? Will they shrug and buy a third television instead of photo gear?
Well yes quite possibly.

Many people,when they amass a bit of spending money have an urge to buy something just to have something new to play with. I used to manage a retail department selling electronic music gear and very often people would come in and buy something that I knew they would ultimately be less satisfied with than had they saved up a bit more for somethign decent. yet they had a hole burning in their pocket.

these type of customers would invariably come in a few weeks later and trade said cheaper purchase in for something else, just as cheap but equally less satisfying than had they saved up and bought something that would last them a lifetime, or at laest many years.

I didn't personally mind as the succession of trade ins meant more profit for my department and thus more sales bonus for me.

Most amateur photographers will have other interests, plus a family, etc, etc and if prices of the next Pentax lens they were targetting goes abvoe their comfort level, it's highly likely that chunk of spending money will go on a third TV, or a weekend family break, etc

05-02-2012, 10:13 PM   #542
New Member




Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10
Ned, give us a break with the mumbo jumbo.

Nothing Ned has to say justifies the lens price increases we are experiencing. I note in the Forum threads that the people calling for calm, and "just wait and see" are the same people that have an established inventory of lenses. I imagine we are too simple to understand the economic currents and the new "channel strategies" that will result in a brave new world for Pentax. Bull. I bought the K5 researching a great camera with IS that also presented the added benefit of lenses that were top notch and didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Ned, myself being an old Navy man, you are the Captain of the Ship,and you are responsible for the Pentax ship's welfare and success. You are also culpable for its failures. You answer to shareholders. And ultimately, us, the consumers. We run the ship.

You should consider decisions that will alleviate the angst the Pentax consumer is feeling. Get off your high horse. You believe that you have a successful business model, a vision, a great strategy....but you are alienating a host of people that placed you in the saddle in the first place.

I am not so naive to believe that Pentax's business strategy will be altered. But are there measures that Penax can take to address the recent draconian lens price increases? Hmmm....are their hands really tied? I think not.

My sincere apologies to the loyal and devout Pentaxians out there...I mean no disrespect whatsoever in this thread. Reading the forums and gleaning such great advice and thoughts on photography, I have nothing but respect and thanks for all of you. I hope this issue is resolved in some manner expeditiously.
05-03-2012, 03:54 AM - 1 Like   #543
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,020
QuoteOriginally posted by Tripbrad Quote
Nothing Ned has to say justifies the lens price increases we are experiencing. I note in the Forum threads that the people calling for calm, and "just wait and see" are the same people that have an established inventory of lenses. I imagine we are too simple to understand the economic currents and the new "channel strategies" that will result in a brave new world for Pentax. Bull. I bought the K5 researching a great camera with IS that also presented the added benefit of lenses that were top notch and didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Ned, myself being an old Navy man, you are the Captain of the Ship,and you are responsible for the Pentax ship's welfare and success. You are also culpable for its failures. You answer to shareholders. And ultimately, us, the consumers. We run the ship.

You should consider decisions that will alleviate the angst the Pentax consumer is feeling. Get off your high horse. You believe that you have a successful business model, a vision, a great strategy....but you are alienating a host of people that placed you in the saddle in the first place.

I am not so naive to believe that Pentax's business strategy will be altered. But are there measures that Penax can take to address the recent draconian lens price increases? Hmmm....are their hands really tied? I think not.

My sincere apologies to the loyal and devout Pentaxians out there...I mean no disrespect whatsoever in this thread. Reading the forums and gleaning such great advice and thoughts on photography, I have nothing but respect and thanks for all of you. I hope this issue is resolved in some manner expeditiously.
Ned really isn't "captain of the ship." He is just the head of the US unit. He may be able to give some feedback to Japan about how policies are being taken, price extremes, etc. But in the end, it is the bosses in Japan who make the decisions and his job is to implement those in the best way possible.

I would also comment that those with a lot of lenses are most likely those with LBA, and are more likely to be purchasing new lenses. A price increase is a good opportunity for them to leave (if they would so choose), since it will tend to push up the prices on the used market as well. I usually buy/flip at least two lenses a year, whether I need to or not. Fortunately, my wife likes photography too, so she doesn't give me too hard a time about it.

When I look at it, I just can't see Pentax expecting to sell their gear at higher prices than Nikon and Canon do. Prices will stabilize, higher than before, but not as high as now.
05-03-2012, 09:42 AM   #544
Senior Member
salgueiros's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canada and Portugal
Posts: 105
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The rationale for UPP, an accepted and legitimate product pricing strategy and channel management strategy has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that the effect of UPP on our actual cost of Pentax gear, taking into account waiting to purchase when items are on promtional pricing, won't be known to us for many months has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that both Nikon and Canon have a UPP strategy has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that third-party lens manufacturers might now release some of their better lenses in K-mount has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that Pentax's wholesale price is unknown to us so we cannot say whether Pentax makes more, less or the same money under UPP has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that Pentax sells Optio WG's to consumers and dSLR's to enthusiasts and pro's and mid-range dSLR's and K-01's to tweeners - and they sell them in different channels - has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that American online retailers (and thus Pentax USA) were actually competing with European and Australian retailers, (and thus Pentax Europe and the Australian Distributor) has been explained many times on this thread.

The fact that America was the source of much of the gray market supply of Pentax products and that UPP is a strategy to close the gray market has been explained many times on this thread.

Yet some posters continue to focus on the fact that the street price for a lens they never intended to purchase has risen to Pentax's published, intended and desired MSRP price.

Here. I'll say it:

Pentax caused the prices of their lenses in the USA retail channel to rise.

We all know why that happened. We all hope Pentax thrives as a result of this step, which is one step of many to come in Ricoh's plan. We all know we simply must wait and see what happens between now and the 2nd quarter 2013.

So post away - but you're not adding anything.
BRAVO!!! Can we close the thread now?

05-03-2012, 01:29 PM   #545
New Member




Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10
Negative Feedback Isn't a Bad Thing

I see from the detailed response that this horse has been beaten to death. And the thread should be closed until the 2nd quarter 2013 in a wait and see mode. Ned, or the Bosses Back in Japan, shouldn't have to experience any more negative feedback. Why not? Why shouldn't they hear what their customers are continuing to say? Might it affect a more positive outcome sooner? From the well laid out response, probably not. But, it can't hurt, can it? Might even have some small benefit to provide Pentax continued feedback so they might, might just listen up? I'd rather continue providing them reminders than going silent until 2nd quarter 2013. I understand your frustration with less knowledgeable and informed persons, but, truly, you don't need to read the feedback on this topic and waste your time responding in the future. I meant no offense.
05-03-2012, 02:49 PM   #546
Pentaxian




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Madison, Wis., USA
Posts: 1,510
I don't think that Pentax Japan (and by extension Pentax USA) cares a great deal about the initial reaction of some on this or any other forum.

Japanese business takes a long-term view of nearly everything. Just as well, as steering back and forth based on the latest month's customer disapproval posts does not amount to a strategic approach. It will nearly always fail. Think about how you were taught to stay within the lane lines on a highway as a beginning driver.

Pentax (Japan and US) will steadily watch unit sales, revenue, and especially profit numbers (global as well as US-generated) as the plan evolves. I'm not sure when they believe that they can come to a final decision on the worth of this move - perhaps the end of this year, perhaps the end of next?

A few of you will immediately remind us that you've said that there will be no Pentax at the end of this year or perhaps next if big/different things don't happen immediately. Or that it's been a whole month now and it's obvious that this pricing approach is already a hopeless failure and The Doom is upon us.

I'm not arguing that a long-term evaluation based on a very short-term view is always wrong. I will argue that it's almost (note "almost") always wrong to jump to a long-term conclusion based on just a short-term view. (I will acknowledge that things looked a great deal different on September 2, 1939 than the did on August 30 of that year. But we are not in that dire a situation.)
05-03-2012, 03:38 PM   #547
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,336
QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
Pentax (Japan and US) will steadily watch unit sales, revenue, and especially profit numbers (global as well as US-generated) as the plan evolves. I'm not sure when they believe that they can come to a final decision on the worth of this move - perhaps the end of this year, perhaps the end of next?
Thank you - I'll add the word Unilateral means Pentax decides whether and when they will alter their prices. Pentax does not mean internet dealers or Forum commenters. Price is just one factor in a purchase - we'll have to wait to see what "soft" factors are added by Pentax in coming months and quarters, such as warranties, service improvements, quality control, marketing, representation infrastructure, etc. I suspect when all is done the cost of a Pentax lens will be lower than it was before April 1st (though the price will be higher) and Pentax will be a better value than it was before the price increases.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-03-2012 at 04:13 PM.
05-03-2012, 03:49 PM   #548
Inactive Account




Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 202
QuoteOriginally posted by Tripbrad Quote
I see from the detailed response that this horse has been beaten to death. And the thread should be closed until the 2nd quarter 2013 in a wait and see mode. Ned, or the Bosses Back in Japan, shouldn't have to experience any more negative feedback. Why not? Why shouldn't they hear what their customers are continuing to say? Might it affect a more positive outcome sooner? From the well laid out response, probably not. But, it can't hurt, can it? Might even have some small benefit to provide Pentax continued feedback so they might, might just listen up? I'd rather continue providing them reminders than going silent until 2nd quarter 2013. I understand your frustration with less knowledgeable and informed persons, but, truly, you don't need to read the feedback on this topic and waste your time responding in the future. I meant no offense.
The dilema I see is, what exactly is a "positive outcome", and for whom? For you - the only positive outcome is having the lower prices back. For some people, a positive outcome means they get more value from better QC & warranty. For others, a positive outcome is decent pricing and having more hands-on exposure to Pentax products. Maybe some people want to see Pentax grab a larger market share so they can produce more & broader product. For some retailers, its about having a level playing field through controlled prices. For others, its about removing the grey market competition. Etc. etc.

And then there is what really matters - what PENTAX considers to be a positive outcome for Pentax!

I really tend to think Pentax gave this whole UPP some thought. Would Ned, or even those guys actually driving the ship back in Japan, think ANYONE would be happy about having to pay more for a lens? Does anyone really think they would be surprised to hear (incessantly) from customers complaining about 'the recent price increase'? Or that they might not have considered sales will take a hit in the US? Does everyone consider that maybe the old Pentax business model in the US wasn't all that successful - for Pentax? Does anyone really think there are no good reasons for doing whatever it is they do (even though you might not agree, or understand them)?

I would bet your life that, when ALL things were considered, Pentax has not done anything they thought would not be better in the long run...for Pentax.

You can agree or not agree. You can believe or not believe. You can understand or not. You can complain or not.
And certainly you can have the last word by simply choosing to pay more - or not. I think Pentax knows that too.


Last edited by jmg257; 05-03-2012 at 08:25 PM.
05-03-2012, 07:13 PM   #549
Veteran Member
Smeggypants's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,536
QuoteOriginally posted by salgueiros Quote
BRAVO!!! Can we close the thread now?
^^^ offensive post.

if you don't want to debate the subject anymore then just don't click on it again. Simple. others may want to continue and even flog it to death. That's their prerogative.

if I see you in this thread again I'll assume your comment above was BS.
05-03-2012, 07:33 PM   #550
Junior Member




Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central Virginia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 33
QuoteOriginally posted by areidjr Quote
Of course, they haven't done Brick & Mortar with UPP until now. Unless people that are unfamiliar with the brand can hold and try a camera, the market is pretty much constrained to current users and those that will but a product sight unseen. Most entry level users go to a B&M store and look at the camera, ask questions, hold it & try it. If they can't touch a Pentax they will be sold what IS available that they can put their hands on.

I tried to get my brother in-law to go for a Pentax and I had him pretty well convinced, noting that we could share lenses, etc. and that I had nothing but good experience with Pentax. He then went out to look at cameras and , since no one stocked Pentax, He got sold on a Nikon. Not necessarily a bad choice, but he would have left with a Pentax had they been on the shelf.

So, yes, YMMV
I don't wholly disagree with you, but my experience with another kind of product has been a bit different. I used to work full-time in firearms retail, and two things factor heavily in what sells: magazines (periodicals) and momentum (popularity). I can't count the number of times I had a customer who was basically a blank slate come in not really knowing what they wanted, but knowing what they had read in a magazine. So many times, I would show them a CZ-75, and they always said wow, that feels great in the hand, but I've never heard of CZ. I'd tell them how much I loved CZs myself, and what nice, inherently accurate pistols they were, and at the same price as a much cheaper to produce polymer-framed pistol. I tell them how they were a prized curiosity in America before the end of the Cold War because they were made in Czechoslovakia, and how they share a design feature with one of the world's most accurate pistols, the SIG P210 (which costs about $2,500 in the States). Then they'd buy something else. Not that they'd buy something worse (we don't sell crap), but I always tell them how important it is for the pistol to feel good in the hand. The CZ is a dream to hold and shoot. Alas, brand recognition counts for a lot more than the sales clerk's opinion. It doesn't matter that they came in to pick my brain and they're hanging on my every word. Of course, there is more to it than just brand recognition. There's also the the availability of spare parts, armorers to install them, holsters and other accessories, and so on. Manufacturers like Glock and SIG Sauer have a huge lead (and nearly all of the police contracts in the US). If Pentax wants to grow, it's a Herculean task. They need to buy ads in the popular magazines, because most magazines, whether they admit it or not, cover products more when the companies buy advertising. They need to get cameras in the hands of pros. They need brand recognition that right now, they simply don't have. It might be an impossible task, and destroying the only market niche you've got in a futile attempt to grow may be the beginning of the end. I hope not, because I love bucking the trends and finding a great product at a great price that suits my needs. Until something else really wows me (like the D800 would but for the huge price it and a couple of top lenses would command), Pentax is that brand.

Last edited by Glarus; 05-03-2012 at 07:47 PM.
05-03-2012, 08:10 PM   #551
Loyal Site Supporter
Rupert's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 24,876
I'm not back over here to rag on Pentax...I've had my say. I am here to say I got my DA*50-135 back from C.R.I. S. today, all in perfect shape, SDM working and perfect focus on my K5, and it has reminded me that Pentax does make some fantastic glass....this lens is one of their best...near prime quality!
I wish everyone had one.....I got mine for $700 when I bought my K20D...it is now $1600. at B& H...and that is a shame! A shame because if more shooters could experience this kind of Pentax glass, there might just be more Pentax shooters?

Regards!
05-03-2012, 08:20 PM   #552
Inactive Account




Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 202
How much would you be willing to pay for that lens? How much would seem a fair/decent value?
05-03-2012, 09:07 PM   #553
Senior Member
salgueiros's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canada and Portugal
Posts: 105
QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
^^^ offensive post.

if you don't want to debate the subject anymore then just don't click on it again. Simple. others may want to continue and even flog it to death. That's their prerogative.

if I see you in this thread again I'll assume your comment above was BS.
If you find that offensive, you live in a weird world, mate. I was able to say, using five or so words, that you and people who agree with you are beating a clearly dead horse.

Besides, it baffles me that some people that live in a so called free country cannot accept what some company does. They are free to do whatever they want with their products and their brand. If you don't like, buy something else. Isn't it the mature thing to do instead of whining endlessly about it?
05-03-2012, 09:39 PM   #554
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,211
QuoteOriginally posted by salgueiros Quote
If you find that offensive, you live in a weird world, mate. I was able to say, using five or so words, that you and people who agree with you are beating a clearly dead horse.

Besides, it baffles me that some people that live in a so called free country cannot accept what some company does. They are free to do whatever they want with their products and their brand. If you don't like, buy something else. Isn't it the mature thing to do instead of whining endlessly about it?
Apparently, you forgot that part in your previous post when you suggested locking the thread. tossed
05-03-2012, 09:52 PM   #555
Senior Member
salgueiros's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canada and Portugal
Posts: 105
QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Apparently, you forgot that part in your previous post when you suggested locking the thread. :tossed:

I would, but i am not a moderator. Just curious, why did you quote my post and highlighted some text and then said something that had nothing to do with the text? Wierd...

Last edited by salgueiros; 05-03-2012 at 09:58 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
channel, lens, lens prices, marketplace, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, photo, price, prices, u.s
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
lens strategy/thoughts ? rtpguy Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 24 11-30-2011 09:35 AM
My lens strategy (not a which one to buy thread) jerryleejr Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 11 09-21-2011 01:08 AM
Pentax UK's responses to my K-5 questions adamfogerty Pentax News and Rumors 8 10-22-2010 12:36 AM
Ned Bunnel interview at Photokina - K-5, K-r, Pentax strategy etc rawr Pentax News and Rumors 50 10-13-2010 06:15 PM
Looking at the current lens lineup, ISO seems to be Pentax strategy. Reportage Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 21 10-05-2010 02:28 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:58 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top