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05-03-2012, 09:53 PM   #556
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Good response....well put.

QuoteOriginally posted by jmg257 Quote
The dilema I see is, what exactly is a "positive outcome", and for whom? For you - the only positive outcome is having the lower prices back. For some people, a positive outcome means they get more value from better QC & warranty. For others, a positive outcome is decent pricing and having more hands-on exposure to Pentax products. Maybe some people want to see Pentax grab a larger market share so they can produce more & broader product. For some retailers, its about having a level playing field through controlled prices. For others, its about removing the grey market competition. Etc. etc.

And then there is what really matters - what PENTAX considers to be a positive outcome for Pentax!

I really tend to think Pentax gave this whole UPP some thought. Would Ned, or even those guys actually driving the ship back in Japan, think ANYONE would be happy about having to pay more for a lens? Does anyone really think they would be surprised to hear (incessantly) from customers complaining about 'the recent price increase'? Or that they might not have considered sales will take a hit in the US? Does everyone consider that maybe the old Pentax business model in the US wasn't all that successful - for Pentax? Does anyone really think there are no good reasons for doing whatever it is they do (even though you might not agree, or understand them)?



I would bet your life that, when ALL things were considered, Pentax has not done anything they thought would not be better in the long run...for Pentax.



You can agree or not agree. You can believe or not believe. You can understand or not. You can complain or not.
And certainly you can have the last word by simply choosing to pay more - or not. I think Pentax knows that too.
Thank you for your response....well put, clear, and direct.

I have to agree with your line of thought...I believe Pentax is making decisions that they believe will ultimately result in their long term success. I wish Pentax long term success. But, are we not allowed to simply disagree with their choices? No, I would not bet your life or mine that they just might not get this right. And you are certainly correct that we can buy Pentax or not. That drives the message home to Pentax more so than any of our banter. Short term, though, my, and others, incessant whining is meant to ensure that Ricoh/Pentax is getting an earful. God bless capitalism. We do have a choice in our purchases and our brand loyalty. I have to be honest...I am most aggravated because I really had my heart set on two Pentax lens purchases: the 70mm and 60-250mm. Literally, a day too late. Taken from my grasp...especially on the 60-250. 70 jumped too though. Point is, the market is simple. We can bring in all the in depth analytical economic evaluations and business models we wish, but it's really simple. Supplier boosts prices ridiculously. Consumer not happy(borderline pi##ed off). Consumer complains, sucks it up and purchases, or goes elsewhere. Global market complexities be damned. I am zeroing in on some Sigmas and Tamrons...guess I"ll be the tiny, unheard voice in the wilderness. But, I'm A OK with it....well, that's bull, I wanted those Pentax lenses.

I do respect your position. I will probably stop complaining and move on at some point...have patience.



Side note: Thanks Smeggypants for supporting freedom of speech point. I am very impressed with the integrity and smartness of this forum. I think I will just focus more on just enjoying my new camera. I readily realize I can't have a major effect upon Pentax's future, but I reserve the right to chime in...it's the American way.

Be good to yourselves and your families...

05-03-2012, 10:10 PM   #557
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QuoteOriginally posted by salgueiros Quote
I would, but i am not a moderator. Just curious, why did you quote my post and highlighted some text and then said something that had nothing to do with the text? Wierd...
The highlighted text was exactly related. Think about what you have written in your last three posts. You talk about "free country" but then you want a thread locked.
05-03-2012, 10:12 PM   #558
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...talk about free country and you want some private company to do what you want, not what they think is best for them, soo...
05-03-2012, 10:21 PM   #559
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QuoteOriginally posted by salgueiros Quote
...talk about free country and you want some private company to do what you want, not what they think is best for them, soo...
If they price themselves out of their 5% of the market, alienating their loyal base is a risk. That is what we are debating in this thread. The "Free country" stuff you keep injecting appears to be a veiled insult.

05-03-2012, 10:29 PM   #560
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
If they price themselves out of their 5% of the market, alienating their loyal base is a risk. That is what we are debating in this thread. The "Free country" stuff you keep injecting appears to be a veiled insult.
No, you ( i mean several people in this thread) are not only debating the marketing strategy of Pentax, you are accusing the US Pentax people of among other things "dishonesty" and "stupidity", something you are clearly not in a position to judge. So, in my perspective, it is pure whining.

The free country was not a veiled insult. i used it to show openly the inconsistency of your position. You are in a free country and that applies to costumers AND private companies.
05-03-2012, 10:53 PM - 1 Like   #561
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QuoteOriginally posted by salgueiros Quote
No, you ( i mean several people in this thread) are not only debating the marketing strategy of Pentax, you are accusing the US Pentax people of among other things "dishonesty" and "stupidity", something you are clearly not in a position to judge. So, in my perspective, it is pure whining.

The free country was not a veiled insult. i used it to show openly the inconsistency of your position. You are in a free country and that applies to costumers AND private companies.
The "free country" comments have nothing to do with it. Sure, Pentax/Ricoh can pull completely out of the camera market in the U.S.A. if they chose to do so. However, I am clearly in a position to decide how much I will pay for new Pentax gear. I always have been. As far as the whining goes, you are doing plenty of it yourself.
05-03-2012, 10:58 PM   #562
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I look at it in a similar fashion to Qwikster. Not that the UPP will be revoked - that's not really even *my* goal - but really, a company (or country-wide subsidiary) with good products is just making bonehead decision after bonehead decision.
05-04-2012, 05:57 AM   #563
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tripbrad Quote
Thank you for your response....well put, clear, and direct.

I have to agree with your line of thought...I believe Pentax is making decisions that they believe will ultimately result in their long term success. I wish Pentax long term success. But, are we not allowed to simply disagree with their choices?...

I do respect your position. .
And I understand and respect yours...Of course we can disagree AND voice that disagreement & dissappointment!

Cheers!


Last edited by jmg257; 05-04-2012 at 11:11 AM.
05-04-2012, 07:32 AM   #564
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmg257 Quote
How much would you be willing to pay for that lens? How much would seem a fair/decent value?
Wow, that is a tough question, given that I only paid $700 new...and that I think it is one of Pentax's finest lenses for superb IQ. $1600 is too much I believe, but $8-9 hundred would be reasonable...provided it had a much better warranty. This is my second SMD failure with this lens, and it has only been lightly used. That is not acceptable. If I used it steadily, I think I could expect $225 a year just to maintain it. That can get expensive very fast!

For $1600, I would want a five year full warranty, free delivery...by that UPS girl that Jan used to post over on DPR...remember her? I think I would even want her to spend a little time modeling for me at that price!

It is a great lens...Otis was proud to see it back, just in time for posing for his Mothers Day card!

He wants it captioned......"Mom, Thanks for my Handsome Looks...Happy Mothers Day, Otis"

F2.8 1/800 ISO 3200 123mm K5 + DA* 50-135
[IMG] [/IMG]


Maybe this will help those guys stop fighting and join forces to knock my Squirrels! Otis says...."Bring it on!"

Best Regards!
05-04-2012, 07:40 AM   #565
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So if say it Promo's at 1099 and warranties change to 2-5 years you would see the value then. I agree it has jumped way too much in the US. up here it is 920-1099 depending on the dealer with a 2 year. Personally i think 999 - 1099 with a better warranty is a fair price. the 920 dealer is one you only shop for price, he's not known for good service (and has a no return policy)

BTW the Bokeh on that shot of otis is a beautiful thing - Otis himself maybe less so - i'm constantly battling his northern army over who has access to my house , if they asked politely maybe but they just break in when ever they like
05-04-2012, 07:46 AM - 1 Like   #566
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QuoteOriginally posted by salgueiros Quote
No, you ( i mean several people in this thread) are not only debating the marketing strategy of Pentax, you are accusing the US Pentax people of among other things "dishonesty" and "stupidity", something you are clearly not in a position to judge. So, in my perspective, it is pure whining.
That's the issue... we're not talking about mere disagreements. Ned is a liar, JC should be fired, everyone at Pentax are incompetents and any armchair expert can do so much better - BS like these aren't even remotely constructive, and can only build a wall between us and Pentax.
I'm not trying to point fingers, however some people should really tone it down; while, of course, continuing to voice their disappointment (beating a dead horse is not recommended, though) but, why not, also not forgetting to congratulate Pentax when they're doing it right.
05-04-2012, 08:01 AM   #567
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
So if say it Promo's at 1099 and warranties change to 2-5 years you would see the value then. I agree it has jumped way too much in the US. up here it is 920-1099 depending on the dealer with a 2 year. Personally i think 999 - 1099 with a better warranty is a fair price. the 920 dealer is one you only shop for price, he's not known for good service (and has a no return policy)

BTW the Bokeh on that shot of otis is a beautiful thing - Otis himself maybe less so - i'm constantly battling his northern army over who has access to my house , if they asked politely maybe but they just break in when ever they like

Thanks Eddie!.....and Otis reminds, he does sell Squirrel Insurance (known better as paid protection) to those having a problem with unruly Otis Army Squirrels. If you mail him he can quote you a reasonable rate, I'm certain. I pay my dues daily, but he offers several plans for most any budget.
For the true "Squirrel Haters" ...you might want to check out his hard drive protection plan......many have found it invaluable in the past...and many more wish they had!

Best Regards!
05-04-2012, 08:49 AM   #568
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
It is a great lens...Otis was proud to see it back, just in time for posing for his Mothers Day card!

He wants it captioned......"Mom, Thanks for my Handsome Looks...Happy Mothers Day, Otis"

F2.8 1/800 ISO 3200 123mm K5 + DA* 50-135




Maybe this will help those guys stop fighting and join forces to knock my Squirrels! Otis says...."Bring it on!"

Best Regards!
Lol, that is a very fine shot. Otis's cousins are massing here across the water. They have white undersides, though, and I often see four at once on the grass outside, large ones, enough to run off any cats. Here the DA* 50-135mm is now the equivalent of $1350 with a two-year warranty but I can get a DA* 200mm for less than that and I think the prime offers better value and, possibly, equal or better image quality. I've never tried either lens though one would be next on my list.
05-04-2012, 09:45 AM   #569
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
That's the issue... we're not talking about mere disagreements. Ned is a liar, JC should be fired, everyone at Pentax are incompetents and any armchair expert can do so much better - BS like these aren't even remotely constructive, and can only build a wall between us and Pentax.
I'm not trying to point fingers, however some people should really tone it down; while, of course, continuing to voice their disappointment (beating a dead horse is not recommended, though) but, why not, also not forgetting to congratulate Pentax when they're doing it right.

:Violin::Violin::Violin::Violin:
05-04-2012, 10:37 AM   #570
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Lol, that is a very fine shot. Otis's cousins are massing here across the water. They have white undersides, though, and I often see four at once on the grass outside, large ones, enough to run off any cats. Here the DA* 50-135mm is now the equivalent of $1350 with a two-year warranty but I can get a DA* 200mm for less than that and I think the prime offers better value and, possibly, equal or better image quality. I've never tried either lens though one would be next on my list.
The 200 would be a good choice at that price....for me, being an avid zoom shooter, primes seldom meet my approval for long....as soon as I have to zoom with my feet, I'm unhappy. This is one reason I love the 50-135...it is near prime quality...and I have compared it regularly with my 43 Ltd and other high quality primes. It's close enough for Squirrels!

Best Regards!
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