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05-24-2012, 07:10 AM   #631
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gray Quote
No it didn't. My wallet has a long memory.

I've bought some good used lenses since the price increase and plan to get a Sigma 70-200 (probably new) for indoor low-light work quite soon, but Pentax will receive nothing from me while their prices remain crazy.
you are in South Africa, AFAIK Pentax pricing didn't change down there. This is an American market thing. If of course you were buying from the US and self importing you were circumventing the local distribution and thus part of the problem from a Pentax global standpoint (since the local distribution is responsible for funding the warranty work locally they need the sales to do that)

In any case They have said they will run Rebate programs a couple of times a year, so this is now no different than nikon or canon lenses

05-24-2012, 07:22 AM   #632
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
you are in South Africa, AFAIK Pentax pricing didn't change down there.
Yes it did. Some lenses have gone up by 30%.

Maybe Pentax is the problem and not its customers.

If Pentax service and warranties on lenses were the same as Nikon and Canon, but they suck compared to Canon, Nikon and Sigma. In SA Sigma offers a 3-year warranty - Pentax 1 year. BUT that's all been said over and over by others more eloquent than me.

Last edited by Gray; 05-24-2012 at 07:32 AM.
05-24-2012, 08:24 AM   #633
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gray Quote
Yes it did. Some lenses have gone up by 30%.

Maybe Pentax is the problem and not its customers.

If Pentax service and warranties on lenses were the same as Nikon and Canon, but they suck compared to Canon, Nikon and Sigma. In SA Sigma offers a 3-year warranty - Pentax 1 year. BUT that's all been said over and over by others more eloquent than me.
Patience, grasshopper. All will be revealed in time.

Ricoh has only owned them for 7 months -
05-24-2012, 12:36 PM   #634
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Well, but understand that your expectations regarding existing lenses will only be met if they are about "perceived value".



In this interview with 'PhotoReporter', Ned Bunnell states:
  • Online retailer prices for Pentax lenses were so low that we could not reasonable run rebate schemes without letting the lenses appear like cheap items.
  • Dealers will have much higher margins when selling Pentax lenses.
  • We made Pentax lenses more expensive to buy.
  • The "small business man" model will return because you can now buy a DA* 50-135/2.8 for an insane $1600 at brick & mortar stores (theoretically).
  • Cameras were never discounted as much as they could have been. Only lenses.
  • I'm sticking my fingers into my ears, therefore I cannot hear online retailers complaining about the forced margins, and hence lower sales. I'm glad I got my Passover gift from Adorama before I screwed them over.
  • Discounting "diminishes" the value of products. (PhotoReporter said this, but Ned did not contradict.)
Of course he does not use the above words but plays semantic games like "We didn't raise prices", but the messages are the same as above.

As far as I'm concerned insane dealer margins -- $750(!) or 88%(!) for a DA* 50-135 -- do not "increase" the value of a product. I should be getting into retail myself, really, with such margins. Although, no one in their right mind will buy the lens at this price, will they?

If they do, the buyer can fool themselves into believing that they bought something worth $1600 and that may indeed correspond to higher "perceived value", but I find it perverted that Pentax USA wants to increase the "perceived value" for lenses, and not the real value.

Surely I'm overreacting and exaggerating but there is little I can stand less then being taken for a fool.

I can only hope that the insane price increases are a funny way to phase out these lenses, thus making space for new ones with a reasonable MSRP.

My expectations are definitely about the value of the product. When the price is the same as canikon, i expect simular performance, warranty, technology, etc.
But it's not just about the value of the lenses. It's the value of the entire system: body, lens, flashes, etc.
I'm currenly re-evaluating the Pentax system as a whole due to the price increase.
I've decided to wait til Photokina to see what happens.

05-24-2012, 01:09 PM   #635
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
I've decided to wait til Photokina to see what happens.
You're not alone. Many of us are doing the same... although if the D600 is order-able before Photokina, I might jump early.
05-24-2012, 09:08 PM   #636
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
My expectations are definitely about the value of the product. When the price is the same as canikon, i expect simular performance, warranty, technology, etc.
But it's not just about the value of the lenses. It's the value of the entire system: body, lens, flashes, etc.
I'm currenly re-evaluating the Pentax system as a whole due to the price increase.
I've decided to wait til Photokina to see what happens.
I think it is a shame that not one store in either Ontario Mills or Victoria Garden carries Pentax products.
05-25-2012, 12:11 AM   #637
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I think it is a shame that not one store in either Ontario Mills or Victoria Garden carries Pentax products.
Ontario Mills!!! Victoria Garden!!!

you must be pretty close to me.
I can't think of any store in Victoria Garden that ever carried camera equipment.
Ontario Mills had 1 but I believe they went the way of film processing. Not enough traffic when everyone was printing their own.

Very sad indeed....
05-25-2012, 01:19 AM   #638
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Hmmm... "increasing value" by increasing price. Methinks Ned has been taking too many notes from Leica, or better yet Monster "it costs 10 times as much so it must be 10 times better" Cable. And the day Pentax becomes known as the "Monster Cable of Cameras" will be a sad day indeed.

Maybe he should take a hint from the recent successes of his own company like the 645D and K-30, which offer real value with as good or better features at a significantly lower price than its competitors, rather than take a lens (e.g. 16-50) with inferior optics, abysmal mechanical reliability, and pathetic warranty compared to its 3rd party competitors, and increase its "value" by nearly doubling the price (which was already significantly higher in the first place).

Oh and "increased B&M presence" is a fallacy. Canikon set their lens prices sky high, but I have never seen an L lens or high end Nikkor in-store, only cheap consumer grade stuff, which are the only kind a casual shopper is going to buy. Heck, Target, which Ned seems to have an obsession with, doesn't carry any lenses at all in store that I've seen. Any big purchases are going to be researched thoroughly online, unless they are fools, and I would think it's a bad business model to bank on fools with too much money in this economy.


Last edited by Cannikin; 05-25-2012 at 03:02 AM.
05-25-2012, 01:27 AM   #639
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Target seems to sell out most Pentax items...or were they never in stock ....????

pentax at Target
05-25-2012, 04:36 AM   #640
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
[...] recent successes of his own company like the 645D and K-30, which offer real value [...]
So this one is already a success ???
05-25-2012, 05:16 AM   #641
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QuoteOriginally posted by victordeamorin Quote
So this one is already a success ???
Yes it is IMO, as in in the few days since its announcement it has gotten an overwhelmingly positive response, even among non-Pentax users (e.g. several Sony and Olympus users have said this is the type of camera they wished their brand would make) across many different sites, specifically for its high end features combined with relatively low price (i.e. real value, not Ned's "perceived value").

Managing such publicity is a major achievement in itself considering that the vast majority of sub-$1000 cameras announced recently have garnered collective yawns and/or outright negative reactions.

Last edited by Cannikin; 05-25-2012 at 06:21 AM.
05-25-2012, 06:47 AM   #642
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OK I see your point, and the K30 seems off to a really good start with excellent publicity and press here in France; however only time will tell (and we users may never know) if this turns out to also be a financial success (which seems to be the only kind that truly matters to a company) for Pentax...
05-25-2012, 09:30 AM   #643
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
you must be pretty close to me.
It's a small world . . . Who would have thought that a 645D resides so close to you!!?
05-25-2012, 12:50 PM   #644
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QuoteOriginally posted by victordeamorin Quote
OK I see your point, and the K30 seems off to a really good start with excellent publicity and press here in France; however only time will tell (and we users may never know) if this turns out to also be a financial success (which seems to be the only kind that truly matters to a company) for Pentax...
What are some of the other kinds of success that should truly matter to a company these days?
05-25-2012, 05:13 PM   #645
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
What are some of the other kinds of success that should truly matter to a company these days?
Having and maintaining a track record (history) of honesty and decency to their employees, customers, stockholders, etc for starters...
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