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04-18-2012, 08:41 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
They're not selling 10,000 645D's a year. The initial announcement was a 10,000 Unit RUN.
The rumors around here said it was 10,000 per year. I'll leave the rest of the internet to argue about whether the internet was correct or not.

04-18-2012, 08:41 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by ironlionzion Quote
Don't worry guys, Amazon has discounted more Pentax lenses. There is still a price increase, but it isn't absurd. Example: 16-50 is now $1100 instead of $1500.

Also, ceteris paribus, price increases above normal inflation values rarely ever lead to increased profit. Pentax knows something we don't. Either they are about to come out with new, market changing products, or they are looking to kill their brand. I'm hoping it's the former.
$1100 is style pyschotic for the DA* 16-50mm given its sdm woes and 1 year warranty. The DA* 60-250mm could be argued to be worth the msrp on it especially if it had a 5 year warranty.
04-18-2012, 08:51 AM   #63
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Now that his official statement is out. I believe that Pentax pricing will eventually go down to find it's true market cost in order to compete with the larger camera manufacturers. We are well aware how low we were able to purchase these lenses for, we just have to weather the storm and let the invisible hand do its work to stabilize the price.

I don't like the lens prices the way they are now, but I understand that it was done in order to allow brick and mortar stores to move their inventory. With the lens prices as high as they are now, there may actually be more incentive for a store to push the sale of Pentax products due to the higher profit margins that can be gained from its sale.
04-18-2012, 08:55 AM   #64
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QuoteQuote:
Exactly, and if you have questions or need assistance with your Item there is a store to walk into and get help.
Yep. Hopefully it'll be like buying guitars...where a couple local stores actually have the stuff you want and actually sell below MAP, so you get good prices AND great service! (ahh well - I can dream!)


Anyway - I am/was as into buying online as much as anyone...but nothing beats going into a store knowing you will buy something, being able to try any and every thing you are interested. And THEN buying exactly what you want at a competive price and taking it home with you. Great experience! (and mine with the K-5 purchase was just that (at B&H)).

04-18-2012, 08:57 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmg257 Quote
Exactly. So when you go into the local camera store that sells Pentax, and you find something you like, you no longer have to go home and buy it online from someone else to save $$$. Now you can(should) just buy it there in person. THAT is why MAP etc makes sense - to level the playing field between Amazon.com and local retailers.
I would much rather buy $$ things like cameras and lenses locally - where I can try them out...as long as the pricing is reasonable. Understood It may no longer seem reasonable (to some preople) vs. other brands, but pricing will be when compared to other sellers.

I have a feeling Pentax is more interested then only selling DSLR & associated gack. Might be a lot of other money to be made if they can get in more stores (like Target?) to sell their full line including P&S/MILC type stuff. Hmmm...maybe they also sold a lot of K-5s and figure its a good a time as any to TRY to get more for the lenses that go with it. In a month or two when someone wants/needs a decent lens will they care (or know) if it costs a bit more then it did in the past?
Well, you still have the issue of sales tax, a big reason in the US why people buy on line. 6 or 7 percent of what is now a 1500 dollar lens is a significant amount and so online dealers will still win, even if online prices are the same as what you see in a store.
04-18-2012, 08:58 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Well, you still have the issue of sales tax, a big reason in the US why people buy on line. 6 or 7 percent of what is now a 1500 dollar lens is a significant amount and so online dealers will still win, even if online prices are the same as what you see in a store.
States are starting to close that up.
04-18-2012, 09:13 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
States are starting to close that up.
Maybe. I haven't seen too much of it though -- amazon seems to make special deals with states where they build distribution centers and get sales taxes waved in return.

Overall, unless Pentax closes up the ability of Canadian firms to sell to the US, there will be no way to wholly enforce the pricing strategy. What is the point of selling the 16-50 for 1400 dollars, if Prodigital2000 has it for 999? On the other hand, prices do seem to be coming back down to some semblance of normalcy. We''ll see an increase, but nothing like there was in the early days of last week.
04-18-2012, 09:19 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
States are starting to close that up.
Given the US budget disaster, maybe there is something brewing in Congress. Big changes like that take 18 months to come public - but large corporations seem to get wind of these changes before they are "publicly" known.

04-18-2012, 09:21 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Maybe. I haven't seen too much of it though -- amazon seems to make special deals with states where they build distribution centers and get sales taxes waved in return.

Overall, unless Pentax closes up the ability of Canadian firms to sell to the US, there will be no way to wholly enforce the pricing strategy. What is the point of selling the 16-50 for 1400 dollars, if Prodigital2000 has it for 999? On the other hand, prices do seem to be coming back down to some semblance of normalcy. We''ll see an increase, but nothing like there was in the early days of last week.
Funny but for years canadian retailers have had to struggle with the US dealers selling close to below the Canadian cost. A lot of dollars have flowed south over the years to the big internet retailers.
Pro Digital is pretty small potatoes compared to BH or Adorama BTW.
And Inventory levels are never that high (heck Canadian Inventories aren't that high as so many point out we are a small market compared to even California) so they won't be a major issue. Pentax US could always do what Pentax Canada does and charge an administrative fee for servicing an international warranty product
04-18-2012, 09:22 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Given the US budget disaster, maybe there is something brewing in Congress. Big changes like that take 18 months to come public - but large corporations seem to get wind of these changes before they are "publicly" known.
More than anything else this would be a really good thing for the US economy. B&M supports higher employment than a warehouse fulfillment operation and the taxes being collected benefit the states as well.
04-18-2012, 09:46 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
My theory on the prices: Pentax intend to replace most of these lenses over coming quarters (say 12 quarters or three years). At these price points the replacement lenses will have better waranties, batter AF motors - whatever faults we think the current lenses have. In so doing they could raise the wholesale prices (narrow the marging) and justify the retail price - so they're establihing their "Price Bands" now and will correct the "Value Bands" going forward.

Of course, many of you will argue they should have kept the prices as they were and raised prices when introducing new, improved lenses. Perhaps - but IMHO that would just extended the "angst" period for years instead of weeks.

Just a thought. And Ricoh does have a plan.
Better products command higher prices. IF they had introduced ANY added value, instead of holding out a pie-in-the-sky-by-and-by approach, then higher prices could be justified to some degree. So, if they had introduced new versions with the improvements you mention then - Yes - their prices would have been justifiable.

I still maintain that Amazon's behavior so far signals that sales have plummeted thus resulting in no profits for the supposed customers of Pentax USA (good to know that I'm not their customer, tells me clearly where I stand in their thinking).
04-18-2012, 09:52 AM - 1 Like   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Exactly, and if you have questions or need assistance with your Item there is a store to walk into and get help.
Are you kidding? Seriously, are you kidding? Where? Target? ROFLMAO!
04-18-2012, 10:01 AM - 1 Like   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Better products command higher prices. IF they had introduced ANY added value, instead of holding out a pie-in-the-sky-by-and-by approach, then higher prices could be justified to some degree. So, if they had introduced new versions with the improvements you mention then - Yes - their prices would have been justifiable.

I still maintain that Amazon's behavior so far signals that sales have plummeted thus resulting in no profits for the supposed customers of Pentax USA (good to know that I'm not their customer, tells me clearly where I stand in their thinking).
You really refuse to see a longer term view in this and act like it's all about you. the fact that sales are down this month was probably expected. If you planned a new lens this month I'm sorry for you. If you planned a new lens this year then sit back use what you have and wait for the adjustments to take effect. But damning the company for trying to fix a mess that not only is a US one but impacted worldwide channels is a waste of time. As I see it the people upset of a couple of choices
1. Wait and see how it plays out and get your gear during rebate periods
2. Bail and go to another brand and either sell off the Pentax or keep it as a backup
3. Give your lens business to the 3rd parties ( as so many like to point out the 17-50 tamron is so much better anyway than say the 16-50)
4. Continue to let the situation eat away at you and whine about it on Forums achieving nothing

Personally I would fall in camp 1 and sometimes camp 3. Mostly I will just take my perfectly good gear and go shoot, continue to salt away for a lens or 2 and when i have enough I'll buy it. When I do I'll go to a local guy and I'll negotiate a bit based on paying cash and the low price in the market at the time. (this BTW is an option fro anyone who has a B&M to shop in. with current retails in the US I can tell you any B&M will eat the tax to close a big sale. they never would have done that against the low low GM previously
04-18-2012, 10:02 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Are you kidding? Seriously, are you kidding? Where? Target? ROFLMAO!
Certainly not Best Buy since they are closing some stores. Circuit City and CompUSA are both long gone here and Wolf went out behind them.
04-18-2012, 10:05 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
You really refuse to see a longer term view in this and act like it's all about you. the fact that sales are down this month was probably expected. If you planned a new lens this month I'm sorry for you. If you planned a new lens this year then sit back use what you have and wait for the adjustments to take effect. But damning the company for trying to fix a mess that not only is a US one but impacted worldwide channels is a waste of time. As I see it the people upset of a couple of choices
1. Wait and see how it plays out and get your gear during rebate periods
2. Bail and go to another brand and either sell off the Pentax or keep it as a backup
3. Give your lens business to the 3rd parties ( as so many like to point out the 17-50 tamron is so much better anyway than say the 16-50)
4. Continue to let the situation eat away at you and whine about it on Forums achieving nothing

Personally I would fall in camp 1 and sometimes camp 3. Mostly I will just take my perfectly good gear and go shoot, continue to salt away for a lens or 2 and when i have enough I'll buy it. When I do I'll go to a local guy and I'll negotiate a bit based on paying cash and the low price in the market at the time. (this BTW is an option fro anyone who has a B&M to shop in. with current retails in the US I can tell you any B&M will eat the tax to close a big sale. they never would have done that against the low low GM previously
I realize that you live in a place that has the wonderful local retailers that are kind, courteous, and informed. Unfortunately you also really don't get it for those living elsewhere - THERE ARE NO RETAILERS IN THE US except a few B&M local shops in places like NYC and LA and Big Box retailers. So, unlike you WE have the choice of paying too much for NO support from the local High School kid or retiree at Target or WalMart or buying online - IF Pentax's plan actually works, IF.
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