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04-18-2012, 10:05 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Are you kidding? Seriously, are you kidding? Where? Target? ROFLMAO!
Target is obviously not the onl;y channel they are looking at. Isn't there a decent higher end shop with canikon in atlanta you mentioned previously. do you really think Pentax isn't trying to open that channel up??? if you do you have never worked retail or for a large brand distributor.
Target would be a great channel for chasing the entry level though. And surprisingly not all retail staff are useless idiots, I've hired good knowledgable salespeople from Walmart. I've also turned away tonnes i thought were hopeless.

04-18-2012, 10:06 AM   #77
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Losing sales right now is definitely important. Having the system up and ready for when they'll start rolling out new products, much more so.
Of course, it's possible for any company to make mistakes; however, I don't believe Pentax Imaging has suicidal tendencies, and would keep trying to sell MSRP even if products will gather dust in the shelves. You have this powerful tool to tell them the prices are too high: don't buy. And, when the prices would adjust downward to a reasonable level (don't wait for bargains, though), buy.
04-18-2012, 10:08 AM - 1 Like   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Target is obviously not the onl;y channel they are looking at. Isn't there a decent higher end shop with canikon in atlanta you mentioned previously. do you really think Pentax isn't trying to open that channel up??? if you do you have never worked retail or for a large brand distributor.
Target would be a great channel for chasing the entry level though. And surprisingly not all retail staff are useless idiots, I've hired good knowledgable salespeople from Walmart. I've also turned away tonnes i thought were hopeless.
KEH is here (used only and no showroom), there is a mom & pop downtown that sells Canon and Nikon only, and we have Target, Best Buy, Fry's, and WalMart. So, 1 B&M non-Big Box store in a city of 4 million - great. Those who are not in the US, other than greater NYC, just don't get it - there is NOT A B&M network other than big box retailers to get your products into any more.

Last edited by Docrwm; 04-18-2012 at 10:16 AM.
04-18-2012, 10:11 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
KEH is here, there is a mom & pop downtown that sells Canon and Nikon only, and we have Target, Best Buy, Fry's, and WalMart. So, 1 B&M non-Big Box store in a city of 4 million - great. Those who are not in the US, other than greater NYC, just don't get it - there is NOT A B&M network other than big box retailers to get your products into any more.
Exactly! There are a couple of places like St. Louis and L.A. that have a few stores and the rest is a big void. On top of that, product has been fairly limited in the past in the existing network.

04-18-2012, 10:18 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
You really refuse to see a longer term view in this and act like it's all about you.
The thing is, Eddie, that corporations take the exact inverse approach, they believe it's all about them (and their shareholders), and look to get away with as much as they possibly can in order to make money. It's entirely appropriate - and maybe even necessary - for consumers to be consumed (ha!) by self-interest, because that's often the only way a relatively satisfactory compromise on the quality-to-price ratio can be reached.
04-18-2012, 10:20 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
On top of that, product has been fairly limited in the past in the existing network.
Because there was no margin in it. Hoya addressed some of the glaring price inconsistencies, but did nothing to control the street price. then they killed any dealer incentive (ie raised minimums killed credit.....)
The US is a huge market, but in comparison to the whole world it is not. if it disrupts the rest of the larger market it needs to be fixed.

Kunzite also made a good point in this needed to be well established before the new product comes to market. So you are looking at 6 months of pain down there so you can have some long term gains

I realise their will be markets that it is near impossible to service properly at B&M. For you it will mean waiting for the rebate programs to buy. Thing is Pentax needs to look at the health of all their channels. 1 very strong channel that is wiping out all the others is not in anyone's best interest.
04-18-2012, 10:23 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
KEH is here (used only and no showroom), there is a mom & pop downtown that sells Canon and Nikon only, and we have Target, Best Buy, Fry's, and WalMart. So, 1 B&M non-Big Box store in a city of 4 million - great. Those who are not in the US, other than greater NYC, just don't get it - there is NOT A B&M network other than big box retailers to get your products into any more.
And why would that be the situation do you think HMMMMM
Sorry but you are reaping what you've sown down there I hate to say.
I would imagine though that the plan is to get into at least one of the4 big boxes you mention which will help build the brand. And that has to be the primary goal
04-18-2012, 10:25 AM - 2 Likes   #83
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It's nice to be able to go into a B&M store to test a product, but inevitably, pricing and convenience are the ultimate deciding factors for most people. Best Buy can attest to this as they've been on the news recently for announcing 50 store closings which they blame in part on the "show room" effect. That is, when shoppers go into their store, test out a product, get some info, and then find the item for less online. What they are not understanding is, most shoppers are more likely to buy electronics like TVs, computers, and cameras based on price. That 5% to 10% price difference matters to the average consumer which leads to purchases through Amazon, B&H, or Adorama, versus a B&M like Best Buy, Target, or Walmart.

In terms of convenience, yes, it's nice to be able to go to a local store, but many figure this to now be a hassle when you factor in: time to travel, cost of fuel, looking for parking, searching for the item if they even have it in stock, knowing more about the product than the sales clerk, getting sales pitches on extended warranties, waiting for a cashier, and then being accosted by a receipt checker. I.e., the typical Best Buy experience.

Compare that to shopping online where it's easy to find good, well-reviewed products, with free shipping, and lower prices (even with taxes). For the consumer, it doesn’t make much sense to pay more for the in-store experience when there are not real measurable benefits, aside from instant gratification.

04-18-2012, 10:28 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
And why would that be the situation do you think HMMMMM
Sorry but you are reaping what you've sown down there I hate to say.
I would imagine though that the plan is to get into at least one of the4 big boxes you mention which will help build the brand. And that has to be the primary goal
I have absolutely no problem ordering from Amazon for 60% of what I was paying locally and having it hand delivered to my place of business or home.

And let's be completely honest, you do not "hate to say".
04-18-2012, 10:33 AM - 1 Like   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Because there was no margin in it. Hoya addressed some of the glaring price inconsistencies, but did nothing to control the street price. then they killed any dealer incentive (ie raised minimums killed credit.....)
The US is a huge market, but in comparison to the whole world it is not. if it disrupts the rest of the larger market it needs to be fixed.
Apparently, that wasn't completely true. BH, Adorama, Abes, 17th Street, and 47th street were B&M. What Pentax didn't have was much of a warranty and support system in the U.S.A.

QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Kunzite also made a good point in this needed to be well established before the new product comes to market. So you are looking at 6 months of pain down there so you can have some long term gains
Roll out what? Vaporware? Move a Niche product line into a enthusiast, semi-pro, pro market without warranty and support? Maybe quietly Ricoh has increased Pentax's production capability. But if they have, it hasn't shown. This whole thing looks more like an artificially controlled supply/demand game. Since any increased profit margin is actually going to existing dealers, how is that helping R&D and production capacity?

QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I realise their will be markets that it is near impossible to service properly at B&M. For you it will mean waiting for the rebate programs to buy. Thing is Pentax needs to look at the health of all their channels. 1 very strong channel that is wiping out all the others is not in anyone's best interest.
The problem is, Pentax USA is far from a strong channel. Plus, enthusiasts, semi-pros and others that need to replace gear don't always have the luxury to play house-wife coupon games. On top of that, the warranty puts this thing into a wall. How many people do you expect to pay a significant surcharge just to be a Pentax fanboi?
04-18-2012, 10:36 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
And why would that be the situation do you think HMMMMM
Sorry but you are reaping what you've sown down there I hate to say.
I would imagine though that the plan is to get into at least one of the4 big boxes you mention which will help build the brand. And that has to be the primary goal
I still do business with the independent B&M. They just don't sell cameras and lenses anymore except for Sony. The last Wolf closed down and me standing at the counter.
04-18-2012, 10:47 AM   #87
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Our small local camera shop used to sell Pentax gear. They only had a small subset of lenses available from Pentax. Then Pentax demanded inventory and sales numbers so high that they had to get out. I purchased a brand new K20D battery and other accessories for $5 each from the used/bargain box. They took quite a financial hit.

If the way Pentax treated them is representative, it might be hard for many business owners, especially smaller stores, to give the Pentax brand another chance.
04-18-2012, 10:56 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by rgknief60 Quote
Our small local camera shop used to sell Pentax gear. They only had a small subset of lenses available from Pentax. Then Pentax demanded inventory and sales numbers so high that they had to get out. I purchased a brand new K20D battery and other accessories for $5 each from the used/bargain box. They took quite a financial hit.

If the way Pentax treated them is representative, it might be hard for many business owners, especially smaller stores, to give the Pentax brand another chance.
That happened under Hoya I believe (it wasn't all bad they avoided losing their shirts in the Ritz mess like Canikon did)

From what I here that has changed as well so maybe you will see a return to your local guy
04-18-2012, 10:59 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I still do business with the independent B&M. They just don't sell cameras and lenses anymore except for Sony. The last Wolf closed down and me standing at the counter.
So for the indy carrying Sony do they not carry another line? If so they aren't really a camera store (though that would be a really good shop to get Pentax in. side by side with Sony Pentax could do very well)
It's good you shop local, it's sad that not enough people did to support the market (the Ritz debacle BTW is how Nikon ended up at their tightly controlled price policy. they recognized the impact the low margins had and took steps to help resolve it - and don't they own a chunk of the revived chain?)
04-18-2012, 11:01 AM   #90
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Yep. Hoya killed the U.S. market. Retailers will be cautious about taking on the brand again, after being treated so badly. I think it could happen, with the proper incentives (such as a better margin on sales).
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