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04-18-2012, 11:10 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Philoslothical Quote
Yep. Hoya killed the U.S. market. Retailers will be cautious about taking on the brand again, after being treated so badly. I think it could happen, with the proper incentives (such as a better margin on sales).
they didn't help our market either. one of the reasons Future shop dumped them was some of the demands Hoya made (but the big boxes like to play the marginal players off against one another - Olympus won that one by essentially buying the space because they were desperate at the time)

04-18-2012, 11:18 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Philoslothical Quote
Yep. Hoya killed the U.S. market. Retailers will be cautious about taking on the brand again, after being treated so badly. I think it could happen, with the proper incentives (such as a better margin on sales).
Pentax was dead in the US market before Hoya bought them.
04-18-2012, 11:18 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
they didn't help our market either. one of the reasons Future shop dumped them was some of the demands Hoya made (but the big boxes like to play the marginal players off against one another - Olympus won that one by essentially buying the space because they were desperate at the time)
Agreed. I tend to leave out Canadian matters, as in all these threads it's always the same: Americans consumers complaining about American issues, what they want and it better be right now, and cost nothing, and everyone else be damned. /rant

I think I'll start avoiding these threads. They're a waste of electrons.
04-18-2012, 11:26 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
Yes, they are new prices. He's playing semantic games.
Exactly. Pentax changes something which forces the customers to pay more for their products. How is that NOT a price increase no matter how one twists the facts?

04-18-2012, 11:39 AM   #95
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This is like "Restrictive Trade Practices" worth the notice of the Commerce Dept. Just that Mr. Bunnell has used lots of words - cotton wooling in British slang - to detract from and fool people.
Hope Ricoh - Pentax sees sense.

In India it is mandatory by law that every item or product for sale carry an MRP (maximum retail price) on the carton as well as the item inside. However the TV channels keep educating people on their rights saying, "you do not have to pay MRP - exercise your right".
For example a 500 ml bottle of Listerine has an MRP of INR 150. But the supermarkets will be selling it for INR 135. Even my local Medical shop will give a discount of 5 to 10% on the MRP.
Ricoh - Pentax is only harming themselves by forcing On-line as well as B&M Stores to sell at MSRP. In fact this is Illegal under the Restrictive Trade Practices Act in India. Maybe there is a similar law in the US, and we need to bring it to the notice of the Federal and State Governments.
Sad to say there are NO Stores or Dealers for Pentax DSLRs in any City, repeat any city or Metro in India. Pentax do not have even an Office or a Service Center in India. In fact the Canikons rule the roost here, with DSLR sales far exceeding that of their P&S cameras.
04-18-2012, 11:48 AM - 3 Likes   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Philoslothical Quote
Agreed. I tend to leave out Canadian matters, as in all these threads it's always the same: Americans consumers complaining about American issues, what they want and it better be right now, and cost nothing, and everyone else be damned. /rant

I think I'll start avoiding these threads. They're a waste of electrons.
The title of this thread is:

Lens prices and our channel strategy in the U.S. - Ned Responses

which word had you fooled?
04-18-2012, 11:50 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by nanhi Quote
...with DSLR sales far exceeding that of their P&S cameras.
That surprises me.
04-18-2012, 11:55 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
That surprises me.
Actually Indai is a rapidly changing market with a strong emerging middle class that will spend money. the lower classes though have very little money (it's a pretty polarized economy right now going through major growth pains) So the more expensive DSLR outselling the low cost option is no surprise. the PS market is likely served almost completely by the camera market

I think Pentax needs to look at this market again and reassess their position their. I imagine it is on the radar just as expanding presence in Mainland china must be.

04-18-2012, 12:03 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
So for the indy carrying Sony do they not carry another line? If so they aren't really a camera store (though that would be a really good shop to get Pentax in. side by side with Sony Pentax could do very well)
It's good you shop local, it's sad that not enough people did to support the market (the Ritz debacle BTW is how Nikon ended up at their tightly controlled price policy. they recognized the impact the low margins had and took steps to help resolve it - and don't they own a chunk of the revived chain?)
They used to carry Nikon and some Canon. They have re-aligned that past couple of years. The quit the camera stuff. They make prints off of digital and do framing. They also develop c41 film in house including 120. That is mainly what I do there is have c41 processed.
About 6 months ago they started sell Sony stuff. They have been in business since the 1920s. They had to adapt or go under.

I don't know about Nikon's relationship with Ritz/Wolf. They are no longer here. However, I can't imagine Nikon liking niche players showing up to play in their sandbox.
04-18-2012, 12:06 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by nanhi Quote
Maybe there is a similar law in the US
There was, until the Supreme Court changed its mind in 2007.
04-18-2012, 12:06 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Philoslothical Quote
Agreed. I tend to leave out Canadian matters, as in all these threads it's always the same: Americans consumers complaining about American issues, what they want and it better be right now, and cost nothing, and everyone else be damned. /rant

I think I'll start avoiding these threads. They're a waste of electrons.
Really, the thread is about Pentax USA and its President, Ned. I bet you are the kind of guy for thanking a mugger for taking the extra weight out of his pockets and back pack.

QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
The title of this thread is:

Lens prices and our channel strategy in the U.S. - Ned Responses

which word had you fooled?
Hysterical
04-18-2012, 12:10 PM   #102
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To be fair, from the sound of things it seems that this pricing structure affects imports from the US as well, in which case it'd affect anyone who bought from B&H or whatever.

Us cheeky Europeans should definitely steer clear though.
04-18-2012, 12:19 PM   #103
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It's not whining to complain when you have invested in a brand, and are somewhat locked into that system, in part because it was much more economical than its competitors. I do think its the height of arrogant self-importance to chastise others for complaining about huge price rises. There, I said it.
04-18-2012, 12:29 PM   #104
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Luftluss & Eddie Sir, we were on a 21-day conducted tour of Europe (including the UK + Spain) by Thomas Cook, India in August 2011 - 4 star hotels, all meals, sight seeing with tickets/entry fees, air fares both international + inside Europe, deluxe coaches, trains, cruises, services of both Indian & local tour guides - INR 2,35,000 ($4700) per pax. My wife and me were the only Indian foreigner with a family group of 44, and except for us, folks were on a shopping spree, like Black Forest Cuckoo clocks Euros 450 to 1200. Half the group had Canikon DSLRs, as Pentax is not available in India. And all over Europe we saw more Indian tourists than Chinese / Japanese / Americans / Australians put together. In fact shop keepers greeted us in Hindi with folded hands as is the custom in India. In Austria, the folk singers sang "sare jahan se accha, Hindustan hamara ... " or "my Hindustan, the most beautiful than all the world .. .", written by one of our Moslem poets. The style, fashion and buying power of middle class Indians are amazing. We who spent 18 years abroad as an Advisor in one of the world's largest conglomerates looked more like a pauper.
04-18-2012, 12:32 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
You really refuse to see a longer term view in this and act like it's all about you. the fact that sales are down this month was probably expected. If you planned a new lens this month I'm sorry for you. If you planned a new lens this year then sit back use what you have and wait for the adjustments to take effect. But damning the company for trying to fix a mess that not only is a US one but impacted worldwide channels is a waste of time. As I see it the people upset of a couple of choices
1. Wait and see how it plays out and get your gear during rebate periods
2. Bail and go to another brand and either sell off the Pentax or keep it as a backup
3. Give your lens business to the 3rd parties ( as so many like to point out the 17-50 tamron is so much better anyway than say the 16-50)
4. Continue to let the situation eat away at you and whine about it on Forums achieving nothing

Personally I would fall in camp 1 and sometimes camp 3. Mostly I will just take my perfectly good gear and go shoot, continue to salt away for a lens or 2 and when i have enough I'll buy it. When I do I'll go to a local guy and I'll negotiate a bit based on paying cash and the low price in the market at the time. (this BTW is an option fro anyone who has a B&M to shop in. with current retails in the US I can tell you any B&M will eat the tax to close a big sale. they never would have done that against the low low GM previously

The new pricing policy might help in the long run by protecting the world market and the local USA camera stores from grey market pricing from a few internet dealers. Still Pentax prices will have to drop down a little to compete with Canikon prices.

I fall into the camp one and camp 2. I am willing to wait and see where prices will fall. I had a DA40 Ltd in the B&H shopping cart but didn't get around to finalizing the purcphase before the price increase. The shopping cart is now empty. In the mean time I have a Olympus E-M5 on pre-order from my local dealer. This dealer use to be a Pentax dealer but 3 or 4 years ago dropped Pentax and picked up Olympus for their third brand. I was just going to use it with the kit lens for my caving and kayaking photos where size really matters. Then again with the new Penax prices I jsut might end up buying a few m-4/3 lenses.

Dave
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