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04-18-2012, 01:06 PM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
sure the nikon 24-70 2.8 g ed is fantastic. It's also 2 grand or so
It has a 5 year warranty and an actual support net work that can fix it with a reasonable turn around. Pentax doesn't really have a DA* in that range at present. The closest thing is the 16-50. Pentax has a possible DA* on the Roadmap.


Last edited by Blue; 04-18-2012 at 01:16 PM.
04-18-2012, 01:11 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mareket Quote
The equivalent price (in dollars) of the Nikkor 17-55 and the Pentax 16-50 are like, $1700 and $1000 respectively. I'm not sure how mind crushingly incredible the Nikkor is, but the 16-50 is pretty outstanding. And the Nikkor doesn't have VR! Why does everyone seem to respond by wanting to jump to Nikon when they're even more expensive? Warranties? I've heard a lot of bad things about the Nikon service centres too.

Canon seem on the ball though.
Actually the DA* 16-50mm is $1495. There are some dodgy sites on Amazon that has it at $1100. However, given the number of times people have had to return it, that could be problematic. However it does come with a 1 year warranty. As far as Nikon service goes, I got a sensor replaced in under 10 days. Pentax's lone repair center can't even give a diagnosis that it is a camera in that length of time.
04-18-2012, 01:12 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
sure the nikon 24-70 2.8 g ed is fantastic. It's also 2 grand or so
A pittance if you are accustomed to purchasing Pentax glass...
04-18-2012, 01:13 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
It has a 5 year warrant and an actual support net work that can fix it with a reasonable turn around. Pentax doesn't really have a DA* in that range at present. The closest thing is the 16-50. Pentax has a possible DA* on the Roadmap.
Pentax' DA* is in line with the 17-55 2.8 not the FF lens. and it is priced as such. Not sure how many times I will have to repeat myself but the DA* lenses are likely to see some adjustments as they really are out of whack now. The 16-50 makes more sense at 1100 with 100 rebates occasionally (making it the same as the also good but less than spectacular 17-55 2.8 Canon

04-18-2012, 01:13 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by Philoslothical Quote
I never said the thread was about anything but Americans and their complaining. I said that I left out what would be an irrelevancy to those Americans and their complaining. Nothing about this is fooling me. Nothing about it surprises me, either, except perhaps that the staff allows so many of these threads to run concurrently.

It's abundantly clear that several people in this thread would rather continue to pay less than the rest of the world, even if it means damaging the Pentax brand further, even if it means brick and mortar chains won't stock it, even if that potentially means less new products down the road. This really doesn't surprise me, either.
There is nothing from stopping you or someone from Canada starting a thread about Canada USA and the current pricing structure. And if you did, I doubt there would be very few people getting on there going "woo hoo" stick to those guys.
04-18-2012, 01:15 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Pentax' DA* is in line with the 17-55 2.8 not the FF lens. and it is priced as such. Not sure how many times I will have to repeat myself but the DA* lenses are likely to see some adjustments as they really are out of whack now. The 16-50 makes more sense at 1100 with 100 rebates occasionally (making it the same as the also good but less than spectacular 17-55 2.8 Canon

I really don't think the 16-50 was ever close to being worth $1k. They will need a heck of a lot of adjustments price wise and the sdm could use some addressing as well in addition to a warranty.
04-18-2012, 01:16 PM   #127
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QuoteQuote:
Actually the DA* 16-50mm is $1495. There are some dodgy sites on Amazon that has it at $1100. However, given the number of times people have had to return it, that could be problematic. However it does come with a 1 year warranty. As far as Nikon service goes, I got a sensor replaced in under 10 days. Pentax's lone repair center can't even give a diagnosis that it is a camera in that length of time.
It's around 630 in the UK from one of Pentax's best online sellers, SRS Microsystems. And I got a mirror motor replaced in less than a week from the Pentax Service centre in the UK.

Pentax USA really need to sort themselves out it seems :[

EDIT: It also comes with a 2 year warranty over here. Sorry to keep rubbing it in, though it does make a point that Pentax USA is a shambles by the sounds of it.
04-18-2012, 01:18 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mareket Quote
But if the better flash system and AF were really such a huge thing, why did people buy into Pentax in the first place? The prices were never hugely different at the entry-level anyway. I bought into it pretty much because it wasn't CaNikon and I'm a fool, but I've not regretted it so far.
Many (most?) folks who buy a DSLR for the first time don't have a fully cemented idea of what they want to photograph. I certainly didn't. That's why it is helpful to have a system that can grow and evolve as your photography does. People maybe don't think about using flash until they have become more advanced photogs and see strobism as more than merely "flash".

In my case, even though the K100D was the same price as the Nikon D40, one of the huge advantages to Pentax was the cheap & robust legacy lens market. This has somewhat vanished, though, as used lens prices have skyrocketed. I really wish I had taken advantage of the opportunity when I had the chance.

04-18-2012, 01:24 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
Dave, this move may actually stimulate grey market sales in the US.

Pentax USA has no control over them (that's why they're grey market, right?) and so those prices can continue as is. The only leverage Pentax USA might have is over dealers who sell both grey market and Pentax-imported products. In that case, Pentax USA can choose to drop retailers who want to sell both. And we know of one well-regarded dealer in NY that usually advertises factory-authorized as well as "imported" bodies. Given that all bodies are imported, I never figured out who they were trying to fool, but there it is.

Perhaps that's why Ned was in NY just prior to Passover.
Let's try this one more time.

The USA BigBox retailers (BestBuy, WalMart, Amazon) are both the gray market supplier to the world and the retailers who compete with their legitimate divisions and retail stores around the world on retail price. PRI is closing the gray market as we type. That is the real reason for the isntallation of a Unilateral Pricing Structure. B&M stores may be a side-beneficiary, but when this all settles Pentax will only establish dealer agreements with retailers who have demonstrated they will not compete unfairlay against Pentax's own divisions. The next shipment is "earned" by behaving according to the dealer agreement - and using a Pentax-sanctioned sale or Rebate to clear overstock.

Dealers who don't play ball won't get any new shipments from Pentax.
04-18-2012, 01:29 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Let's try this one more time.

The USA BigBox retailers (BestBuy, WalMart, Amazon) are both the gray market supplier to the world and the retailers who compete with their legitimate divisions and retail stores around the world on retail price. PRI is closing the gray market as we type. That is the real reason for the isntallation of a Unilateral Pricing Structure. B&M stores may be a side-beneficiary, but when this all settles Pentax will only establish dealer agreements with retailers who have demonstrated they will not compete unfairlay against Pentax's own divisions. The next shipment is "earned" by behaving according to the dealer agreement - and using a Pentax-sanctioned sale or Rebate to clear overstock.

Dealers who don't play ball won't get any new shipments from Pentax.
i think if people dont get it from that then they have something wrong with them...
04-18-2012, 01:33 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by parsons Quote
i think if people dont get it from that then they have something wrong with them...
The issue I have is that if it was a "gray market" item, BH, Adorama and Abe's make than known up front. You see the price difference and it usually isn't that big of a gap. They should be able to come up with a better way to close up gray markets.
04-18-2012, 02:17 PM - 1 Like   #132
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So....being on Amazon, a respected seller of merchandise, is bad for Pentax? Because Amazon might beat a retail price at some small shop? What small shop? Small shops haven't carried Pentax for ages in the US, and won't be inclined to carry them now...with prices almost double on top grade lenses. If they couldn't sell them before at lower prices, how will this improve their volume? I've never seen a sign in a window anywhere saying "Hurry In...Prices Just Raised"


I can't think of any product I have ever known, that was a bit player to begin with, that got a boost in sales by wildly raising prices? You can play that funny math game all day long, but show me the money....which one of you is going to step forward and say you are now more likely to buy a DA*16-50 or DA* 50-135 than you were last year...due to the price increase? Is your product going to be better? Is your warranty going to be longer? .......or is it just that your wallet is going to be lighter?

I'm not a fanboy, but if I was, I would choke on defending this nonsense.

Regards
04-18-2012, 02:30 PM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
So....being on Amazon, a respected seller of merchandise, is bad for Pentax? Because Amazon might beat a retail price at some small shop? What small shop? Small shops haven't carried Pentax for ages in the US, and won't be inclined to carry them now...with prices almost double on top grade lenses. If they couldn't sell them before at lower prices, how will this improve their volume? I've never seen a sign in a window anywhere saying "Hurry In...Prices Just Raised"


I can't think of any product I have ever known, that was a bit player to begin with, that got a boost in sales by wildly raising prices? You can play that funny math game all day long, but show me the money....which one of you is going to step forward and say you are now more likely to buy a DA*16-50 or DA* 50-135 than you were last year...due to the price increase? Is your product going to be better? Is your warranty going to be longer? .......or is it just that your wallet is going to be lighter?

I'm not a fanboy, but if I was, I would choke on defending this nonsense.

Regards
I would add to that this question - precisely how many items does Amazon carry that it does not discount from MSRP? and it's corollary - how much of a sh*t will Amazon give if it can not sell Pentax lenses any longer?

Last edited by Docrwm; 04-18-2012 at 03:06 PM.
04-18-2012, 02:40 PM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
So....being on Amazon, a respected seller of merchandise, is bad for Pentax? Because Amazon might beat a retail price at some small shop? What small shop? Small shops haven't carried Pentax for ages in the US, and won't be inclined to carry them now...with prices almost double on top grade lenses. If they couldn't sell them before at lower prices, how will this improve their volume? I've never seen a sign in a window anywhere saying "Hurry In...Prices Just Raised"


I can't think of any product I have ever known, that was a bit player to begin with, that got a boost in sales by wildly raising prices? You can play that funny math game all day long, but show me the money....which one of you is going to step forward and say you are now more likely to buy a DA*16-50 or DA* 50-135 than you were last year...due to the price increase? Is your product going to be better? Is your warranty going to be longer? .......or is it just that your wallet is going to be lighter?

I'm not a fanboy, but if I was, I would choke on defending this nonsense.

Regards
QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
The issue I have is that if it was a "gray market" item, BH, Adorama and Abe's make than known up front. You see the price difference and it usually isn't that big of a gap. They should be able to come up with a better way to close up gray markets.
B&H Adorama and (maybe) Abe's are legitimate dealers (and probably Amazon). They're forced to compete on price with the opportunistic gray market resellers - who buy from dealers who intentionally over-order to get bracket pricing and quietly sell excess inventory to these opportunists.

What the hell is Contractor's A/V?

The street prices will settle at a lower level, but above the recent prices. New lenses and new runs of established lenses will have a new feature - maybe a better warranty or a better build - to justify a higher price to us (and a higher wholesale price as well). Using the increased cash flow from the higher wholesale price PRI will develop the market through tactical advertising, events, somes rep sales support where it can be done (Ned listed some like Creve Couer Camera here is St. Louis) at B&M stores, etc.

To me, this all seems very clear. But we have to be patient for a few months. It will all work out, Pentax will grow and prosper and regain a position as the solid #3 brand and do a lot of neat things with innovative products (I like my K-01) as well as their traditional strength in optics, and K-5 style ergonomics and IQ, in weather resistant bodies.

They have a great legacy and strong designers and engineers - and trying to hire more.

If that's Pollyanna I'll come back here in a year and admit it. Don't forget I have a ton of legacy gear that goes to Zero if I am wrong.
04-18-2012, 03:07 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Roll out what? Vaporware?
Do you even know what vaporware is? No, it doesn't refer to not yet launched products but which are on schedule.
Here, let me help you:
Vaporware - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


QuoteOriginally posted by dgcom Quote
I posted this as the comment on that blog entry. Don't think it will get approved though...
It was.
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