[luftfluss]

Actually Indai is a rapidly changing market with a strong emerging middle class that will spend money. the lower classes though have very little money (it's a pretty polarized economy right now going through major growth pains) So the more expensive DSLR outselling the low cost option is no surprise. the PS market is likely served almost completely by the camera market

I think Pentax needs to look at this market again and reassess their position their. I imagine it is on the radar just as expanding presence in Mainland china must be.

I wasn't considering it from a monetary viewpoint, but simply from a matter of convenience & portability and - I'm apparently quite wrong in this - the general public's lack of interest in anything beyond snapshots. I guess the traditional P&S is caught between the pincers of cell phones & DSLRs more than I thought.

[luftfluss]

Luftluss & Eddie Sir, we were on a 21-day conducted tour of Europe (including the UK + Spain) by Thomas Cook, India in August 2011 - 4 star hotels, all meals, sight seeing with tickets/entry fees, air fares both international + inside Europe, deluxe coaches, trains, cruises, services of both Indian & local tour guides - INR 2,35,000 ($4700) per pax. My wife and me were the only Indian foreigner with a family group of 44, and except for us, folks were on a shopping spree, like Black Forest Cuckoo clocks Euros 450 to 1200. Half the group had Canikon DSLRs, as Pentax is not available in India. And all over Europe we saw more Indian tourists than Chinese / Japanese / Americans / Australians put together. In fact shop keepers greeted us in Hindi with folded hands as is the custom in India. In Austria, the folk singers sang "sare jahan se accha, Hindustan hamara ... " or "my Hindustan, the most beautiful than all the world .. .", written by one of our Moslem poets. The style, fashion and buying power of middle class Indians are amazing. We who spent 18 years abroad as an Advisor in one of the world's largest conglomerates looked more like a pauper.

I had read maybe 2 years ago that India had more out-of-country vacationers than any other country.

[Philoslothical]

The title of this thread is:

Lens prices and our channel strategy in the U.S. - Ned Responses

which word had you fooled?

I never said the thread was about anything but Americans and their complaining. I said that I left out what would be an irrelevancy to those Americans and their complaining. Nothing about this is fooling me. Nothing about it surprises me, either, except perhaps that the staff allows so many of these threads to run concurrently.

It's abundantly clear that several people in this thread would rather continue to pay less than the rest of the world, even if it means damaging the Pentax brand further, even if it means brick and mortar chains won't stock it, even if that potentially means less new products down the road. This really doesn't surprise me, either.

[magkelly]

It's a little late for them to be working with Best Buy actually. Best Buy is tanking as I type. But I have to question if what they are doing is so wrong. When you think about it the cost of Nikon and Canon gear isn't any cheaper. I think they just want the brand to be in the same ball park maybe? To stabilize pricing from country to country a bit more? Is that such a bad thing? It won't be quite as cheap for us in the USA but it seems more fair for the rest of the world maybe. I've looked at lens and camera prices elsewhere and always thought we had a bit of an unfair advantage really.

[Mareket]

Still Pentax prices will have to drop down a little to compete with Canikon prices.

The equivalent price (in dollars) of the Nikkor 17-55 and the Pentax 16-50 are like, $1700 and $1000 respectively. I'm not sure how mind crushingly incredible the Nikkor is, but the 16-50 is pretty outstanding. And the Nikkor doesn't have VR! Why does everyone seem to respond by wanting to jump to Nikon when they're even more expensive? Warranties? I've heard a lot of bad things about the Nikon service centres too.

Canon seem on the ball though.

[luftfluss]

I never said the thread was about anything but Americans and their complaining. I said that I left out what would be an irrelevancy to those Americans and their complaining. Nothing about this is fooling me. Nothing about it surprises me, either, except perhaps that the staff allows so many of these threads to run concurrently.

I agree, there's far too many of these threads. Some fora do something like, "Sanctioned, the XXXXX discussion thread" so everyone who cares to chime in on a topic can do so with maximum visibility.

It's abundantly clear that several people in this thread would rather continue to pay less than the rest of the world, even if it means damaging the Pentax brand further, even if it means brick and mortar chains won't stock it, even if that potentially means less new products down the road. This really doesn't surprise me, either.

I daresay the vast majority of folks would prefer worldwide prices come down to the previous USA prices, rather than the converse. I'll maintain, as I have for the last couple of weeks, that had Ricoh granted a few perks with the more egalitarian lens pricing, all the hullabaloo would be a fraction of it's current amount.

[luftfluss]

It's a little late for them to be working with Best Buy actually. Best Buy is tanking as I type. But I have to question if what they are doing is so wrong. When you think about it the cost of Nikon and Canon gear isn't any cheaper. I think they just want the brand to be in the same ball park maybe? To stabilize pricing from country to country a bit more? Is that such a bad thing? It won't be quite as cheap for us in the USA but it seems more fair for the rest of the world maybe. I've looked at lens and camera prices elsewhere and always thought we had a bit of an unfair advantage really.

It's a "bad thing" when Canon & Nikon lenses are more readily available, when a $100 Nikon lens has a 5x longer warranty than a $2000 Pentax lens, when Canon & Nikon have a much greater new lens selection, when Canon & Nikon have (so far) a greater upgrade path, when Nikon & Canon has (it seems) better QC.

[kenafein]

The equivalent price (in dollars) of the Nikkor 17-55 and the Pentax 16-50 are like, $1700 and $1000 respectively. I'm not sure how mind crushingly incredible the Nikkor is, but the 16-50 is pretty outstanding. And the Nikkor doesn't have VR! Why does everyone seem to respond by wanting to jump to Nikon when they're even more expensive? Warranties? I've heard a lot of bad things about the Nikon service centres too.

Canon seem on the ball though.

Maybe because the Tokina 16-50 is ~$400 and because they have a very comprehensive set of accessories, features and 3rd party support that Pentax doesn't offer. Since the prices are becoming closer, Pentax presents less of a value. Have you checked out the used market for Canikon? Their lenses don't hold their value since there is so much supply. You can pick up a used kit much cheaper than you can for Pentax. If for some reason you wanted a Sigma 100-300/4 you could buy a D90 and the lens for less than you could buy that lens for in K-mount. I love my current setup and I'm still not switching, but it does make sense to a lot of people.

[Philoslothical]

I'll maintain, as I have for the last couple of weeks, that had Ricoh granted a few perks with the more egalitarian lens pricing, all the hullabaloo would be a fraction of it's current amount.

That much I agree with, for sure.

[luftfluss]

The equivalent price (in dollars) of the Nikkor 17-55 and the Pentax 16-50 are like, $1700 and $1000 respectively. I'm not sure how mind crushingly incredible the Nikkor is, but the 16-50 is pretty outstanding. And the Nikkor doesn't have VR! Why does everyone seem to respond by wanting to jump to Nikon when they're even more expensive? Warranties? I've heard a lot of bad things about the Nikon service centres too.

Canon seem on the ball though.

When I look at B&H, I see the Nikon 17-55 is about $50 less than the Pentax 16-50, and the Nikon does indeed lack VR, so you raise a valid point in this case. The Nikon does not have a great rep, but neither does the Pentax.

Nikon does have some outstanding zooms that Pentax can't match, though, as well as more accessories, a far better flash system, historically better AF, and more of an upgrade path.

[eddie1960]

The new pricing policy might help in the long run by protecting the world market and the local USA camera stores from grey market pricing from a few internet dealers. Still Pentax prices will have to drop down a little to compete with Canikon prices.

I fall into the camp one and camp 2. I am willing to wait and see where prices will fall. I had a DA40 Ltd in the B&H shopping cart but didn't get around to finalizing the purcphase before the price increase. The shopping cart is now empty. In the mean time I have a Olympus E-M5 on pre-order from my local dealer. This dealer use to be a Pentax dealer but 3 or 4 years ago dropped Pentax and picked up Olympus for their third brand. I was just going to use it with the kit lens for my caving and kayaking photos where size really matters. Then again with the new Penax prices I jsut might end up buying a few m-4/3 lenses.

Dave

Olympus bought their way into Pentax's spot a few years ago when Hoyas minimum order thing went in place (happened up here as well)
that move was the dumbest move Hoya made i think.
I have been saying the prices will settle to more sane prices (right now on the da* in particular you have the highest prices I've seen) I think you will see it settle down a fair bit with rebates to drive it further in key periods like christmas (and I'm betting a lot of dealers screw with the policy on black Friday )
This is one of those unfortunate things that really needed to happen and doing it now months from the prime season so it can be settled before then and dealers who are waffling on the edge can be closed so they are in full dealer mode by fall makes a lot of sense. If you bought in on price alone this does you no good. If you bought in for value and have patience then ultimately it will work out just not as low priced as before, but probably with better end services available
Just racing to the bottom on price has pretty much proven it is not the solution I think based on market share numbers. continuing on that path makes no sense in that light (given the more expensive markets actually have stronger share)

[glanglois]

The new pricing policy might help in the long run by protecting the world market and the local USA camera stores from grey market pricing from a few internet dealers. Still Pentax prices will have to drop down a little to compete with Canikon prices.

<snip>.

Dave

Dave, this move may actually stimulate grey market sales in the US.

Pentax USA has no control over them (that's why they're grey market, right?) and so those prices can continue as is. The only leverage Pentax USA might have is over dealers who sell both grey market and Pentax-imported products. In that case, Pentax USA can choose to drop retailers who want to sell both. And we know of one well-regarded dealer in NY that usually advertises factory-authorized as well as "imported" bodies. Given that all bodies are imported, I never figured out who they were trying to fool, but there it is.

Perhaps that's why Ned was in NY just prior to Passover.

[Mareket]

Aaaah fair enough. I hadn't taken into account the scarcity of k-mount lenses of the used market. I do wish Tokina lenses were available for Pentax cameras.

But if the better flash system and AF were really such a huge thing, why did people buy into Pentax in the first place? The prices were never hugely different at the entry-level anyway. I bought into it pretty much because it wasn't CaNikon and I'm a fool, but I've not regretted it so far.

And the prices I quoted were UK prices by the way.

[eddie1960]

When I look at B&H, I see the Nikon 17-55 is about $50 less than the Pentax 16-50, and the Nikon does indeed lack VR, so you raise a valid point in this case. The Nikon does not have a great rep, but neither does the Pentax.

Nikon does have some outstanding zooms that Pentax can't match, though, as well as more accessories, a far better better flash system, historically better AF, and more of an upgrade path.

sure the nikon 24-70 2.8 g ed is fantastic. It's also 2 grand or so

[Blue]

What brand will you switch to - and why?

Hmmm... with people jumping ship, it might soon be a good time to start stocking up on used gear!

Don't get your hopes up. Instead of a k-5 and Sigma 180mm/2.8 HSM macro, it will be a Nikon D7000 and Nikkor 200/4 micro (macro). I'll keep running my Pentax film gear and existing digital like I have been. However, if I do sell off a few items, I will at least include a jar of Vaseline.