[Docrwm]

I wasn't referring to you as a troll- I didn't see what you were doing as a let's all leave to canikon bandwagon. I h e noticed other posters saying they are leaving and trying to convince others to do the same- which is not what you were doing.
I actually agree with you that buying lenses at prices double what they were is senseless, and not buying them is the correct way forward because it will mean that the prices will come down faster- as Ned said- when the prices settle, we will be competitive ( or something to that effect)

I'm sorry that I have come between this disagreement- and I am not taking sides.

I simply have a problem with people calling other people bastards.

I also have a problem with people bringing politics into a news and rumor forum. There is a perfectly good politics forum that you can post in if you want to discus such topics. You won't find me there though.

I apologize but since I started the Pledge thread I hope it is easy to understand my misunderstanding of your comments.

As for the "bastards" comment - I tried being civil, tried pointing out the ad hominems but I was weak and reached a level of annoyance today that came through. I regret the comment, not because I do not believe it to be true but because it added nothing to the conversation other than to vent.

[parsons]

Mr Ned claims Pentax aren't raising prices on their lenses.

But in reality Pentax has raised the prices on their lenses. I won't use the world 'liar' as Mr Ned has embarrassed himself and made a huge faux pas on behalf Pentax already; Very poor show

Can you not see that Pentax have not raised their prices to the retailers. It is the retailers who have raised their prices to us. Pentax have merely told them to stick to msrp.
The two are slightly different.

[Blue]

Can you not see that Pentax have not raised their prices to the retailers. It is the retailers who have raised their prices to us. Pentax have merely told them to stick to msrp.
The two are slightly different.

Pentax forced the issue. Therefore, they bear the responsibility.

[luftfluss]

Unbelievable!

Mr Ned claims Pentax aren't raising prices on their lenses.

But in reality Pentax has raised the prices on their lenses. I won't use the world 'liar' as Mr Ned has embarrassed himself and made a huge faux pas on behalf Pentax already; Very poor show

Very believable, Ned is splitting hairs and calling himself a barber. But what else would one expect of a person in his position.

At this point, Ned has been communicative and provided a smidge of information, so IMO we shouldn't bother with agitating him.

[Docrwm]

Very believable, Ned is splitting hairs and calling himself a barber. But what else would one expect of a person in his position.

At this point, Ned has been communicative and provided a smidge of information, so IMO we shouldn't bother with agitating him.

Yes, if so you might be ex-Communicated (as has been already suggested by some about some who question the infallibility of his Holiness).

[parsons]

Pentax forced the issue. Therefore, they bear the responsibility.

Well yes alright- 'the end result is the same so what's the difference' sort of thing

The way I see it is that we have been lucky to have the prices we had whilst Hoya was in control. The prices were bitter-sweet though because it meant that pentax couldn't make a proper foot hold in the market because of the b&m shop problems etc.
Ricoh are just mending the cracks in the foundations before they build another story on the fort.

And I guess that in that sense ned is bending the truth slightly, -but he is telling it how it is.

[Smeggypants]

Can you not see that Pentax have not raised their prices to the retailers. It is the retailers who have raised their prices to us. Pentax have merely told them to stick to msrp.
The two are slightly different.

Crass pedantry in practise.

No they are not different in regards to the customer. Pentax have told their retailers to raise their prices, they are the instigators Therefore Pentax have raised the prices of their Lenses. It's extemelt disingenuous for Mr Ned to come out with this nonsense that frankly you'd only expect from politicians.

I expected the Mr Ned statement to be corporately vacuous, and much of it is, but I didn't expect it to also be such an insult to our intelligence by claiming they haven't raised prices when they have.

If I was CEO of Pentax Ricoh I C I'd terminate Mr Ned's position with the company immediately before he does any more damage.

[monochrome]

Are you taking your meds?

I assume this is directed (at least in part) to me. Lets review.


The first line is to Blue and nunnayerbiz.
Line two is a statement of fact few will dispute.
Line three is also true
Line four my explanation of why some may enjoy seeing Americans get a price increase.

And for this I am a BASTARD. Thanks for proving my points.

From the movie, The Professionals

Joe Grant (Ralph Bellamy) to "Rico" Fardan (Lee Marvin): "You BASTARD!"

Rico to Grant: "Yes, sir. In my case, an accident of birth. But you -- you, Sir, you are a self-made-man."

[Smeggypants]

Very believable, Ned is splitting hairs and calling himself a barber. But what else would one expect of a person in his position.

At this point, Ned has been communicative and provided a smidge of information, so IMO we shouldn't bother with agitating him.

Shouldn't bother with agitating him? I couldn't care less about agitating him. The guy's been ( to put it politely) disingenuous. As a Pentax customer for over 25 years I'm furious!!

But what else would one expect of a person in his position.

I would expect him to be a bit more intelligent and mroe honest. Claiming that Pentax haven't raised prices when in fact they have done just that by telling their retailers to raise them isn't the most intelligent statements to make when you want to endear yourself to the customer.

[Blue]

From the movie, The Professionals

Joe Grant (Ralph Bellamy) to "Rico" Fardan (Lee Marvin): "You BASTARD!"

Rico to Grant: "Yes, sir. In my case, an accident of birth. But you -- you, Sir, are a self-made-man."

Gotta like old Lee Marvin.

[Docrwm]

Shouldn't bother with agitating him? I couldn't care less about agitating him. The guy's been ( to put it politely) disingenuous. As a Pentax customer for over 25 years I'm furious!!



I would expect him to be a bit more intelligent and mroe honest. Claiming that Pentax haven't raised prices when in fact they have done just that by telling their retailers to raise them isn't the most intelligent statements to make when you want to endear yourself to the customer.

But you seem to be laboring under, an admittedly until recently common, misconception - you are NOT a Pentax customer. If in doubt of this fact please re-read His Holiness's earlier post to his blog blessing this price rise.

[parsons]

Crass pedantry in practise.

No they are not different in regards to the customer. Pentax have told their retailers to raise their prices, they are the instigators Therefore Pentax have raised the prices of their Lenses. It's extemelt disingenuous for Mr Ned to come out with this nonsense that frankly you'd only expect from politicians.

I expected the Mr Ned statement to be corporately vacuous, and much of it is, but I didn't expect it to also be such an insult to our intelligence by claiming they haven't raised prices when they have.

If I was CEO of Pentax Ricoh I C I'd terminate Mr Ned's position with the company immediately before he does any more damage.

Read my other response.
If you expected it to be vacuous corporate speak then it's not surprising you think it is.
I don't think he is being completely straight, but what he says is true. He explains the situation as it is.

Give a man a hammer and everything he sees will be a nail

[Docrwm]

Read my other response.
If you expected it to be vacuous corporate speak ten it's not surprising you think it is.
I don't think he is being completely straight, but what he says is true. He explains the situation as it is.

Give a man a hammer and everything he sees will be nails

Yes, but there is such a thing as insulting your audience. Ned seems particularly good at achieving that with his pronouncements about how we have to see things.

[luftfluss]

Shouldn't bother with agitating him? I couldn't care less about agitating him. The guy's been ( to put it politely) disingenuous. As a Pentax customer for over 25 years I'm furious!!

I would expect him to be a bit more intelligent and mroe honest. Claiming that Pentax haven't raised prices when in fact they have done just that by telling their retailers to raise them isn't the most intelligent statements to make when you want to endear yourself to the customer.

I gave up indignation - righteous & otherwise - for Lent, and never bothered to look for it again.

As far as "agitating"... I would rather be nice and gain info. Ned's response to price increases & Pentax's role in them is typical corporate spin, to expect otherwise is not living in 21st century reality.

The cost of camera gear is not worth getting infuriated over.

[Smeggypants]

Read my other response.
If you expected it to be vacuous corporate speak then it's not surprising you think it is.
I don't think he is being completely straight, but what he says is true. He explains the situation as it is.

Give a man a hammer and everything he sees will be a nail

^^^ Patronising garbage.

I'm quite capable of distringuishing, and had it not been mostly "vacuous corporate speak" I would have said so.