Lens prices and our channel strategy in the U.S. - Ned Responses

**Fontan** · 05-22-2012, 09:03 PM

Well, this certainly blew over, didn't it?

Blue · 05-22-2012, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by Fontan

Well, this certainly blew over, didn't it?

I don't see a rush out to buy lenses. Camera bodies are a different story given the price point of the K-30.

ElJamoquio · 05-22-2012, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by Fontan

Well, this certainly blew over, didn't it?

I think it did blow over. Some combination of short memories and 'short' (ok long) attention spans...

**Fontan** · 05-22-2012, 10:05 PM

I am sure Ned and Pentax expected this. Played right into their hands. Now business as usual.

DeadJohn · 05-22-2012, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by Fontan

Well, this certainly blew over, didn't it?

Do you want us to keep repeating the same facts and opinions to prove our feelings about the 90% price jump on some lenses? My most recent lens purchase went to Sigma instead of Pentax. If Pentax' prices were less maybe I would have made a different decision. I didn't see a need to rant about it here because it would have added nothing to the conversation.

**Fontan** · 05-23-2012, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by DeadJohn

Do you want us to keep repeating the same facts and opinions to prove our feelings about the 90% price jump on some lenses?

As a matter of fact, yes.

thibs · 05-23-2012, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by Fontan

As a matter of fact, yes.

Please, stop this non sense.

DeadJohn · 05-23-2012, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by Fontan

As a matter of fact, yes.

Have fun reposting every day.

Blue · 05-23-2012, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by Fontan

I am sure Ned and Pentax expected this. Played right into their hands. Now business as usual.

I had planned to buy a couple of lenses late spring summer. Didn't happen and won't, not new anyway. Like I said in my last post, the current excitement is about the K-30 which is priced more like the K200d was when it was released.

Allison · 05-23-2012, 08:58 PM

I don't think it blew over. I still refuse to buy new now. Post announcement lens purchases were all used because of the price hike. What I do like is that they are pricing the new products with a reasonable msrp. The msrp on something like the da* zooms was set with an old pricing structure when it was anticipated that the "street" price would be a fraction of msrp. If they really want to continue to see lenses and accessories that were previously in production, they should (IMHO) adjut the msrps accordingly.

Okay, I am done beating the dead horse...for now

**7samurai** · 05-23-2012, 10:11 PM

It's not over. I'm in a holding pattern until Photokina.
I'm expecting wonderful things from them. When they raised the prices, I raised my expectations.

LFLee · 05-23-2012, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by Allison

I don't think it blew over. I still refuse to buy new now. Post announcement lens purchases were all used because of the price hike. What I do like is that they are pricing the new products with a reasonable msrp. The msrp on something like the da* zooms was set with an old pricing structure when it was anticipated that the "street" price would be a fraction of msrp. If they really want to continue to see lenses and accessories that were previously in production, they should (IMHO) adjut the msrps accordingly.

Okay, I am done beating the dead horse...for now

agree w/ adjusting the MSRP.
I hope the new DA* lens that is planned for 2013 release is reasonably priced.

... but the DA 50 f1.8 doesn't suggest that will be the case. $250 for plastic mount? don't even bother to put in a lens hood and lens bag.
it is $100 more expensive than the cheap 50mm Canon and Nikon offer. I am not asking Pentax to offer it at $100, but $199 seem more reasonable.

Lee

ElJamoquio · 05-23-2012, 10:34 PM

It might be $200 if Pentax 'allows' the retailers to charge a decent price.

Class A · 05-24-2012, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by 7samurai

When they raised the prices, I raised my expectations.

Well, but understand that your expectations regarding existing lenses will only be met if they are about "perceived value".

In this interview with 'PhotoReporter', Ned Bunnell states:

Online retailer prices for Pentax lenses were so low that we could not reasonable run rebate schemes without letting the lenses appear like cheap items.
Dealers will have much higher margins when selling Pentax lenses.
We made Pentax lenses more expensive to buy.
The "small business man" model will return because you can now buy a DA* 50-135/2.8 for an insane $1600 at brick & mortar stores (theoretically).
Cameras were never discounted as much as they could have been. Only lenses.
I'm sticking my fingers into my ears, therefore I cannot hear online retailers complaining about the forced margins, and hence lower sales. I'm glad I got my Passover gift from Adorama before I screwed them over.
Discounting "diminishes" the value of products. (PhotoReporter said this, but Ned did not contradict.)

Of course he does not use the above words but plays semantic games like "We didn't raise prices", but the messages are the same as above.

As far as I'm concerned insane dealer margins -- $750(!) or 88%(!) for a DA* 50-135 -- do not "increase" the value of a product. I should be getting into retail myself, really, with such margins. Although, no one in their right mind will buy the lens at this price, will they?

If they do, the buyer can fool themselves into believing that they bought something worth $1600 and that may indeed correspond to higher "perceived value", but I find it perverted that Pentax USA wants to increase the "perceived value" for lenses, and not the real value.

Surely I'm overreacting and exaggerating but there is little I can stand less then being taken for a fool.

I can only hope that the insane price increases are a funny way to phase out these lenses, thus making space for new ones with a reasonable MSRP.

Gray · 05-24-2012, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by Fontan

Well, this certainly blew over, didn't it?

No it didn't. My wallet has a long memory.

I've bought some good used lenses since the price increase and plan to get a Sigma 70-200 (probably new) for indoor low-light work quite soon, but Pentax will receive nothing from me while their prices remain crazy.

05-24-2012, 05:46 AM	#629
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by 7samurai When they raised the prices, I raised my expectations. Well, but understand that your expectations regarding existing lenses will only be met if they are about "perceived value". In this interview with 'PhotoReporter', Ned Bunnell states: Online retailer prices for Pentax lenses were so low that we could not reasonable run rebate schemes without letting the lenses appear like cheap items. Dealers will have much higher margins when selling Pentax lenses. We made Pentax lenses more expensive to buy. The "small business man" model will return because you can now buy a DA* 50-135/2.8 for an insane $1600 at brick & mortar stores (theoretically). Cameras were never discounted as much as they could have been. Only lenses. I'm sticking my fingers into my ears, therefore I cannot hear online retailers complaining about the forced margins, and hence lower sales. I'm glad I got my Passover gift from Adorama before I screwed them over. Discounting "diminishes" the value of products. (PhotoReporter said this, but Ned did not contradict.) Of course he does not use the above words but plays semantic games like "We didn't raise prices", but the messages are the same as above. As far as I'm concerned insane dealer margins -- $750(!) or 88%(!) for a DA* 50-135 -- do not "increase" the value of a product. I should be getting into retail myself, really, with such margins. Although, no one in their right mind will buy the lens at this price, will they? If they do, the buyer can fool themselves into believing that they bought something worth $1600 and that may indeed correspond to higher "perceived value", but I find it perverted that Pentax USA wants to increase the "perceived value" for lenses, and not the real value. Surely I'm overreacting and exaggerating but there is little I can stand less then being taken for a fool. I can only hope that the insane price increases are a funny way to phase out these lenses, thus making space for new ones with a reasonable MSRP. Last edited by Class A; 05-24-2012 at 05:55 AM.

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05-22-2012, 09:03 PM	#616
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	Well, this certainly blew over, didn't it?

05-22-2012, 09:34 PM	#617
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Fontan Well, this certainly blew over, didn't it? I don't see a rush out to buy lenses. Camera bodies are a different story given the price point of the K-30.

05-22-2012, 09:37 PM	#618
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Fontan Well, this certainly blew over, didn't it? I think it did blow over. Some combination of short memories and 'short' (ok long) attention spans...

05-22-2012, 10:05 PM	#619
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	I am sure Ned and Pentax expected this. Played right into their hands. Now business as usual.

05-22-2012, 10:14 PM	#620
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,833	Originally posted by Fontan Well, this certainly blew over, didn't it? Do you want us to keep repeating the same facts and opinions to prove our feelings about the 90% price jump on some lenses? My most recent lens purchase went to Sigma instead of Pentax. If Pentax' prices were less maybe I would have made a different decision. I didn't see a need to rant about it here because it would have added nothing to the conversation.

05-23-2012, 03:55 AM	#621
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	Originally posted by DeadJohn Do you want us to keep repeating the same facts and opinions to prove our feelings about the 90% price jump on some lenses? As a matter of fact, yes.

05-23-2012, 04:56 AM	#622
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Fontan As a matter of fact, yes. Please, stop this non sense.

05-23-2012, 05:43 AM	#623
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,833	Originally posted by Fontan As a matter of fact, yes. Have fun reposting every day.

05-23-2012, 08:51 PM	#624
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Fontan I am sure Ned and Pentax expected this. Played right into their hands. Now business as usual. I had planned to buy a couple of lenses late spring summer. Didn't happen and won't, not new anyway. Like I said in my last post, the current excitement is about the K-30 which is priced more like the K200d was when it was released.

05-23-2012, 08:58 PM	#625
Allison Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 667	I don't think it blew over. I still refuse to buy new now. Post announcement lens purchases were all used because of the price hike. What I do like is that they are pricing the new products with a reasonable msrp. The msrp on something like the da* zooms was set with an old pricing structure when it was anticipated that the "street" price would be a fraction of msrp. If they really want to continue to see lenses and accessories that were previously in production, they should (IMHO) adjut the msrps accordingly. Okay, I am done beating the dead horse...for now

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05-23-2012, 10:11 PM	#626
7samurai Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 474	It's not over. I'm in a holding pattern until Photokina. I'm expecting wonderful things from them. When they raised the prices, I raised my expectations.

05-23-2012, 10:30 PM	#627
LFLee Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Southern California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,292 Original Poster	Originally posted by Allison I don't think it blew over. I still refuse to buy new now. Post announcement lens purchases were all used because of the price hike. What I do like is that they are pricing the new products with a reasonable msrp. The msrp on something like the da* zooms was set with an old pricing structure when it was anticipated that the "street" price would be a fraction of msrp. If they really want to continue to see lenses and accessories that were previously in production, they should (IMHO) adjut the msrps accordingly. Okay, I am done beating the dead horse...for now agree w/ adjusting the MSRP. I hope the new DA* lens that is planned for 2013 release is reasonably priced. ... but the DA 50 f1.8 doesn't suggest that will be the case. $250 for plastic mount? don't even bother to put in a lens hood and lens bag. it is $100 more expensive than the cheap 50mm Canon and Nikon offer. I am not asking Pentax to offer it at $100, but $199 seem more reasonable. Lee

05-23-2012, 10:34 PM	#628
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	It might be $200 if Pentax 'allows' the retailers to charge a decent price.

05-24-2012, 06:55 AM	#630
Gray Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Cape Town Photos: Gallery Posts: 536	Originally posted by Fontan Well, this certainly blew over, didn't it? No it didn't. My wallet has a long memory. I've bought some good used lenses since the price increase and plan to get a Sigma 70-200 (probably new) for indoor low-light work quite soon, but Pentax will receive nothing from me while their prices remain crazy.