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04-29-2012, 09:11 PM - 1 Like   #331
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The FF mirrorless. The camera that managed to kill Pentax. - that would be a game changer, for sure
Uhh... no, thanks - I'd rather like to see a nice, very capable DSLR.
+1 on the DLSR, though I would buy a turd from Pentax if it was a full frame turd. At this point, I'm not prepared to be all that picky, I just want an in the game Pentax

04-29-2012, 10:48 PM   #332
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The FF mirrorless. The camera that managed to kill Pentax. - that would be a game changer, for sure
+1
EVFs (assuming it even has one(!)), are getting there, but are not good (fast) enough yet.

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
But then again, you'd expect that Pentax's website would advertise the K-01 when it was introduced, though, too.
I'm sure Ned "We didn't raise prices" Bunnell had a good reason to do it that way.
04-29-2012, 10:53 PM   #333
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It depends what market Ricoh wants to cash on. A DSRL FF Pentax appeals to long time die hard Pentaxians with FA lenses. They are few but probably would spend a higher price and close one eye over somehow poor AF performance... A mirrorless full frame would be of interest to a larger target of buyers, but it needs to be done with short register distance mount and top video and live view performance.
04-29-2012, 10:58 PM   #334
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greyser Quote
Why so? Would you please elaborate? It looks like K-01 IQ is not bad at all.
I'd rather ask you a question: how many people do you think would be willing to pay $$$$ or even $$$$$ but either:
a. not having a viewfinder at all (like the K-01) or
b. having exactly the same EVF as APS-C MILCs?
The benefit being a thinner body and having to use cumbersome, $$$ adapters (possibly with loss of functionality) if you have a K-mount lens or two.

For Pentax, the benefits would be:
a. killing the K-mount
b. (thus) losing almost all its (K-mount) customers, and our trust
c. having to develop a new lens line from the scratch and for few years not having an even nearly complete system (i.e. not being able to compete)
d. being at a disadvantage if e.g. Sony would decide to launch their own MILC FF (they could to it, if it were feasible), since the K-mount advantage is lost
Oh, wait. That would benefit the competition, actually

04-29-2012, 11:21 PM   #335
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greyser Quote
Why so? Would you please elaborate? It looks like K-01 IQ is not bad at all.
The iq of a 4x5 sensor mounted in a coffin would be even better - but I think dpreview would complain about usability
04-30-2012, 03:59 AM   #336
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'd rather ask you a question: how many people do you think would be willing to pay $$$$ or even $$$$$ but either:
a. not having a viewfinder at all (like the K-01) or
b. having exactly the same EVF as APS-C MILCs?
The benefit being a thinner body and having to use cumbersome, $$$ adapters (possibly with loss of functionality) if you have a K-mount lens or two.

For Pentax, the benefits would be:
a. killing the K-mount
b. (thus) losing almost all its (K-mount) customers, and our trust
c. having to develop a new lens line from the scratch and for few years not having an even nearly complete system (i.e. not being able to compete)
d. being at a disadvantage if e.g. Sony would decide to launch their own MILC FF (they could to it, if it were feasible), since the K-mount advantage is lost
Oh, wait. That would benefit the competition, actually
This is what I wrote in another thread about the rumored NC-1 (with became Q I guess) with smaller sensor on januari 24 2011:
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well going alone is another problem. Just another mico-K-mount has no future either. So to me there are a few options that really could work.
  1. Join Panansonic/Olympus with the micro 4/3th using the same mount, just with a Sony sensor of high quality.
  2. Create a unique small evil camera as small as Pentax Auto 110 was in past with real small lenses and a small sensor.
  3. Make an entree level EVIL that in future wil make entry level DSLR like K-x obsolete. New micro-K-mount that with an adapter will take all current lenses but also new lenses. Give it APS-c sensor like K-x/K-r.
  4. Make a high-end EVIL wit a FullFrame sensor with the current K-mount so all lenses will fitt. No nonsens about thinner camera, since it is to use with big lenses. (maybe even Trans-Lucent).
  5. Leave this new market between P&S and DSLR to others and make no money out of it.

To me number 1 and 4 make the most sence.

Number 5, doing nothing in a time that entry leven DSLR will be going out of the market due to all the EVIL's is not smart, and in this same time P&S is losing ground to iPhone and all others smartphone's. In P&S the only real future is bridge camera and rough camera's like W90.
So I guess still a high-end evil with K-mount (like K-01) would still be a good idea to my idea.
04-30-2012, 04:58 AM   #337
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I personally don't think EVFs are there yet, particularly with regard to full frame viewfinders. Those, are the best optical viewfinders. It's not like comparing an entry level APS-C camera with a pentamirror to an EVF, where it is probably a wash. If you look at lists of why people want full frame, better viewfinder is at or near the top of nearly every list.

Release a K-01 with an EVF, but leave it off of full frame options for the time being.
04-30-2012, 05:04 AM   #338
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I personally don't think EVFs are there yet, particularly with regard to full frame viewfinders. Those, are the best optical viewfinders. It's not like comparing an entry level APS-C camera with a pentamirror to an EVF, where it is probably a wash. If you look at lists of why people want full frame, better viewfinder is at or near the top of nearly every list.

Release a K-01 with an EVF, but leave it off of full frame options for the time being.
Agreed (except I still think a MF OVF is better)

Add to this Sony is strongly rumoured to also have a Nex9 being readied for release which would make it tough to get a k mount mirrorless the levvel of attention it may have if it was released oh say in may
I'm sure eventually there will be a K mount Ff mirrorless, but i think it is better left for later, a proper OVF will have a bigger initial appeal.

04-30-2012, 07:59 AM - 1 Like   #339
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
So I guess still a high-end evil with K-mount (like K-01) would still be a good idea to my idea.
Only good if you want to kill Pentax imo.

Let us compare the equivalent aps-c cameras and how they sell: The K-01 and Sony NEX. I have no figures but I think the NEX series are outselling the K-01 with a great margin. The problem is that the K-01 attracts only current K-owners (~5%) while NEX attracts anyone (100%) that wants a small camera that mounts everything with adapter.

Add the stupidity that Pentax now is launcing lenses that can't be monted to a dslr with their protrusion into the mirror box. It's partly like a new mount.
04-30-2012, 08:17 AM   #340
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What if:

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'd rather ask you a question: how many people do you think would be willing to pay $$$$ or even $$$$$ but either:
a. not having a viewfinder at all (like the K-01) or
b. having exactly the same EVF as APS-C MILCs?
The benefit being a thinner body and having to use cumbersome, $$$ adapters (possibly with loss of functionality) if you have a K-mount lens or two.

For Pentax, the benefits would be:
a. killing the K-mount
b. (thus) losing almost all its (K-mount) customers, and our trust
c. having to develop a new lens line from the scratch and for few years not having an even nearly complete system (i.e. not being able to compete)
d. being at a disadvantage if e.g. Sony would decide to launch their own MILC FF (they could to it, if it were feasible), since the K-mount advantage is lost
Oh, wait. That would benefit the competition, actually

It's a pure speculation but what if:
  • the K-mount will be kept
  • the price would be set in the range of hypothetical FF DSLR
  • there will be EVF and/or articulated screen
  • the older FF lenses will be OK or require minor tweaks like modern coating, for example
Honestly FF is not my every night dream. I'm fine with my K-5. However, I may buy this FF mirror-less as a 2nd body (not by use though) to be paired with small primes, wide angle, and macro lenses. I will keep FA*300 and DA*60-250 (which is very questionable on FF) on other APS-C body (K-5 or alike) to benefit from extra 1.5X crop factor.
In my opinion Pentax should continue playing in the niches to be recognized by general public, not only by Pentax crowd. Coming entry level FF Nikon D600 may change the whole FF world. Is Pentax ready to compete here?

Last edited by Greyser; 04-30-2012 at 11:59 AM.
04-30-2012, 08:17 AM   #341
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QuoteOriginally posted by Supernaut Quote

Add the stupidity that Pentax now is launcing lenses that can't be monted to a dslr with their protrusion into the mirror box. It's partly like a new mount.
What is so stupid about looking at things that maximize the form factor of the K-01, it's not like they are stopping making lenses for the DSLR line, just adding some value to the mirrorless lineup. Not stupid at all IMO. There are loads of holes in the lens and body line to fill after years of neglect by hoya so Ricoh has to evaluate and release across all the lines. If the K-01 isn't the camera for you it doesn't mean they should ignore it. It seems to have found a niche and be producing
04-30-2012, 08:31 AM   #342
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
What is so stupid about looking at things that maximize the form factor of the K-01, it's not like they are stopping making lenses for the DSLR line, just adding some value to the mirrorless lineup. Not stupid at all IMO. There are loads of holes in the lens and body line to fill after years of neglect by hoya so Ricoh has to evaluate and release across all the lines. If the K-01 isn't the camera for you it doesn't mean they should ignore it. It seems to have found a niche and be producing
Those of us who have a K-01 can never outnumber those who don't, yet they know why it was a bad move by Pentax.

All I can tell you is I had mine out w/ the K28/3.5, DA40 Limited, K135/2.5 and DA55~300 all weekend at a camping event with 60 or so adults. Stimulated lots of conversation, including but not limited to the idea that I can use my old lenses - but especially that ANYONE CAN BUY OLD K-MOUNT LENSES SUCH AS A K28 FOR $150 +/- on eBay, KEH or a local camera store. The K-01 isn't JUST for exisiting owners of K-mount lenses.

The 2 guys with D700's and G zooms were especially - something that looked like - envious. I got very sharp shots at 300mm.
04-30-2012, 08:54 AM   #343
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QuoteOriginally posted by Supernaut Quote
Let us compare the equivalent aps-c cameras and how they sell: The K-01 and Sony NEX. I have no figures but I think the NEX series are outselling the K-01 with a great margin.
That is simply an unfair statement. The NEX had a 2 year head start, of course it is outselling the K-01.

I'm not much of a fan of the K-01, I just don't think that is a meaningful comparison yet.
04-30-2012, 09:08 AM   #344
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QuoteOriginally posted by Supernaut Quote
Add the stupidity that Pentax now is launcing lenses that can't be monted to a dslr with their protrusion into the mirror box.
It's the same of what they are doing (and have done for decades) with any K lens in respect to the 645D (and previous film MF cameras).
04-30-2012, 10:35 AM   #345
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
+1 on the DLSR, though I would buy a turd from Pentax if it was a full frame turd. At this point, I'm not prepared to be all that picky, I just want an in the game Pentax
Shhhhh! Don't say that out loud!

I agree though, I'd looove a K mount FF, and don't really care about the features, as long as it has a mirror, huge pentaprism and a good focusing screen!
I believe the main attraction for the FF Pentax is so that we can use our old M, A and FA lens, and of course for the 3 amigos. Personally, I find using manual focus lens in Live View difficult and rather unfulfilling, whereas a large bright pentaprism would be the icing on the cake!

Feature wise, those of the K5 (which i have) would be plenty enough for me to order the FF version today.
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