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04-27-2012, 06:06 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
This is, well, [ ____________________ ] to say the least (fill in the blank). I mean come on, "we had to bend over backwards and screw over our hardcore customers by sticking them with MSRP pricing to make this 1,700 store Optio deal work" - this must be like some late ass April fools day joke right? Right Pentax? It has to be, right?
You know the UPP was introduced on April 1st, right?

04-27-2012, 06:08 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
Daaaaaannnnnnnnngggggg, and here it is I just want to pay the fair market value for an item that I do not have to send in for service every two months.
Today on craigslist I saw a 50-135 for $550. Fair price, right?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/pho/2980268491.html

And you don't even have to worry about the SDM breaking because it's already pre-broken.
04-27-2012, 06:11 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Yep pretty much. Wonder If Nikon people bitched as much? they have put in place far more restrictive policies than Pentax and before Pentax
I wondered that also so I checked with a few friends and they told me that had no need to bitch, they receive solidly built product that works as marketed that does not need constant servicing. They also noted that they have plenty of places they can take their gear too to have professionally cleaned and inspected - they also noted they gladly pay the costs as they love to see their money at work in the form of advertising across almost all of the most popular publications and national TV spots - the are assured of quality product with great service available at an arms reach.
04-27-2012, 06:13 AM   #34
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The next "Exciting Pentax News" from Ned will be that Pentax can be found nationwide in Dollar General stores. After all, they are as much a camera store as Target. You could sell a lot of $1500.lenses in Dollar General, no doubt?

I thought Hoya was insane....but I think Ricoh is already ahead of them in being completely out of touch with marketing in America.
Regards!

04-27-2012, 06:28 AM   #35
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I have to admit that I've bought a camera at Target. It was a P&S a long time ago when I got a substantial discount on it.

But Ned trying to placate us by saying 'Calm down - the UPP will allow us to get a P&S into a big box store!!!' would be a lot more humorous if he wasn't playing with 'our' company's future.
04-27-2012, 06:53 AM   #36
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@eddie1960
QuoteQuote:
I'd be pretty upset if they pulled the service thing Nikon did, not shipping parts to service centers that aren't Nikon centers ( Sorry but once my warranty is up I want to be able to shop for service - can you imagine the uproar that would happen if a car maker pulled this kind of crap).
Can they do this in your country? Car manufacturers did it in Germany in the past, but now-a-days it's against German and European law. And they must sell it at the same price as to their own repair centers. Companies which did not keep to these rules had to pay many millions of Euros.
04-27-2012, 06:56 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If Pentax brioght to market a mirrorless and mirrored line, EVF and OVF, in a compact body and K-5 body, APSc and 36x24 - AND a compact MILC with K-5 internals, all with perfect ergonomics, 16fpx, 1/8000 flash sync, a better flash than Nikon, the option of with or without video and W-Fi uploads - for less than $3,000 top end and $599 bottom end - a complete accessory set - 3-year warranties on bodies, 5 on lenses, same-day service, advertising,

People would still bitch about UPP.
At present for k-mount, they have 1 milc aps-c body and 1 aps-c dslr body. The warranty is only 1 year. That is the reality at the moment. The speculation is they have 4 body announcements to make. That is possibility. The service comment is a bit silly because the current turn around and past turnaround time runs into the months for a lot of people.
04-27-2012, 07:00 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by RKKS08 Quote
@eddie1960
Can they do this in your country? Car manufacturers did it in Germany in the past, but now-a-days it's against German and European law. Companies which did not keep to these rules had to pay many millions of Euros.
Nikon did it in the US, not Canada AFAIK. No car maker has ever done it AFAIK over here (North America is in love with the car still any manufacturer that tried that would see sales plummet over night)
Personally I think it should be against the law to not provide parts to outside service agencies. If you bought a used camera (which inherently has no warranty even if a current model as warranties aren't transferable) you should be able to get it serviced where you like.

04-27-2012, 07:00 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Yep pretty much. Wonder If Nikon people bitched as much? they have put in place far more restrictive policies than Pentax and before Pentax (Henry from BH listed them)
I'd be pretty upset if they pulled the service thing Nikon did, not shipping parts to service centers that aren't Nikon centers ( Sorry but once my warranty is up I want to be able to shop for service - can you imagine the uproar that would happen if a car maker pulled this kind of crap)
When Pentax is off warranty, you can still send it to CRIS that currently does Pentax warranty. It will still take a long time because Pentax ships the part to them slowly. Nikon has multiple centers and they are relatively quick. Good luck with an Indy on Pentax.
04-27-2012, 07:27 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
When Pentax is off warranty, you can still send it to CRIS that currently does Pentax warranty. It will still take a long time because Pentax ships the part to them slowly. Nikon has multiple centers and they are relatively quick. Good luck with an Indy on Pentax.
Actually we still have a couple of indy shops. but thing is if you are out of warranty one of the local Nikon shops could likely repair the camera as well. most shops will service more than one brand though they may only be an authorized shop for 1 or 2
04-28-2012, 09:14 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Where did I say Pentax's flagship would be running an entry level sensor? I said the K-r successor may use the K-5 sensor in addition to WR. I would expect the K-5
successor to have a newer sensor. I don't know that a Nikon design would necessarily be low cost. They have bought into some companies over the past few years.
What are you drinking? It sounds fun.

The D3200 sensor is from Sony (confirmed by Thom Hogan). Those MP are useful for people buying an entry-level dslr as they can crop into longer focal ranges.

The K-r replacement needs at least the same. What's the K-5 replacement going to use?

Nikon have given Canon a HUGE kick in the teeth with the D3200. Pentax has also received HUGE collateral damage; the D3200 is the 2012 K-x.
04-28-2012, 09:31 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
What are you drinking? It sounds fun.
Actually, I don't get in the > koolaid like some of you do.

QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
The D3200 sensor is from Sony (confirmed by Thom Hogan). Those MP are useful for people buying an entry-level dslr as they can crop into longer focal ranges.

The K-r replacement needs at least the same. What's the K-5 replacement going to use?

Nikon have given Canon a HUGE kick in the teeth with the D3200. Pentax has also received HUGE collateral damage; the D3200 is the 2012 K-x.
You seem to be confusing the issue here. The K-r did NOT have the same sensor the K-5 had so why do you automatically assume the K-r successor will? I was just stating the obvious. The K-5 sensor would be a possibility for the K-r successor. The even used it in the K-01. The K-5 Successor could be the same as the Nikon equivalent in a similar situation that we saw with the K-5 and D7000. The one wrinkle is that will the K-r successor be intermediate between the top body or will it be the entry body. If it is intermediate, it may also have WR.

To put it another way, when was the last time Pentax had more than 1 body in production with the same sensor? The closest was the K200d and K10d. Then the slight overlap with the K200d and K-m.

Edit: Plus, I didn't say anything about usefulness of mp to people with entry level bodies. I was speculating the Pentax lineup relative to Nikon.
04-28-2012, 09:32 AM   #43
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24 MP K-z - more than K-r. Between K-r and K-5. And K-5's replacement will be...
04-28-2012, 10:14 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Actually, I don't get in the > :koolaid: like some of you do.



You seem to be confusing the issue here. The K-r did NOT have the same sensor the K-5 had so why do you automatically assume the K-r successor will? I was just stating the obvious. The K-5 sensor would be a possibility for the K-r successor. The even used it in the K-01. The K-5 Successor could be the same as the Nikon equivalent in a similar situation that we saw with the K-5 and D7000. The one wrinkle is that will the K-r successor be intermediate between the top body or will it be the entry body. If it is intermediate, it may also have WR.

To put it another way, when was the last time Pentax had more than 1 body in production with the same sensor? The closest was the K200d and K10d. Then the slight overlap with the K200d and K-m.

Edit: Plus, I didn't say anything about usefulness of mp to people with entry level bodies. I was speculating the Pentax lineup relative to Nikon.
You seem friendly and fun, but maybe we're talking at cross-purposes here. K-r didn't use a better sensor than the K-x, and the K-7 and K-5 kept their distance, in body, controls and IQ (at their time).

What I'm saying is the D3200 is a new paradigm change. Whatever Canon/Pentax wanted to do, they have just been presented with a marketing (and likely performance) problem. Sony are one step ahead as they precisely know what Nikon and Pentax are doing, down to sensor purchase projections/guarantees.
04-28-2012, 10:26 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
You seem friendly and fun, but maybe we're talking at cross-purposes here. K-r didn't use a better sensor than the K-x, and the K-7 and K-5 kept their distance, in body, controls and IQ (at their time).

What I'm saying is the D3200 is a new paradigm change. Whatever Canon/Pentax wanted to do, they have just been presented with a marketing (and likely performance) problem. Sony are one step ahead as they precisely know what Nikon and Pentax are doing, down to sensor purchase projections/guarantees.
I agree that the D3200 is pushing the bar. I have said so in a couple of threads specific to it. The K-m used the Sony sensor used in the K10d and K200d. The K-x and K-r used the same sensor but but was improved upon for the K-r. Pentax had the transition from the Samsung sensor there as well. What I was suggesting is that Pentax never shared their penultimate sensor with a current production lesser body. I think they pushed the sensor in the K-r about as far as they can. They are in a dilemma about whether to use the same sensor. The probably have decided before the D3200 was announced. Pentax has been good at getting better results out of sensors so I don't know that the 16mp sensor would be a bad choice for the next entry level or intermediate. The other possibility is that the 24mp will be used in entry level and intermediate bodies and something with higher specs will be used in the flagship dSLR.
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