Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-14-2008, 10:22 PM   #46
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 475
More K20d High Iso Shots!

QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
And, the K10D still has VPN.

After so many months of ignoring and not acknowledging the existence of VPN, Pentax makes another camera with VPN.

They, and the beta testers must really assume its no big deal as this was January 11 firmware, and introduction is Jan. 24.

Why can't they just understand what causes the banding, and not accept a design until its completely eliminated. Gordon B. Goode came up with some plausible ways to initially be sure there won't be VPN in the first place, without using firmware tweaks to overcome a design/hardware issue.

VPN should have been a given for the K20HD not to have. Color noise as well. Even the D300 & D3 have solved that issue at 6400 without additional in-camera noise reduction. Pentax knows this. Luminance noise at 6400 is not as big a deal, and is expected.
The banding you see in the high ISO image above looks nothing like the green/purple streaking seen in some K10D shots, but you are right to be so alarmed about the K20D ISO 6400 banding and bad noise in the pre-production shots above.

Here are more samples that show banding and bad noise:



















Sell all of your Pentax gear now while the Eeekbay prices are still ridiculously high!

Ray

01-14-2008, 10:26 PM   #47
ogl
Banned




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Siberia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,114
If it's really K20D's jpegs,
my first impression from this pictures are much better than from first images of K10D in web with beta firmware in 2006. Even this small pictures.
01-14-2008, 10:37 PM   #48
ogl
Banned




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Siberia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,114
QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
The banding you see in the high ISO image above looks nothing like the green/purple streaking seen in some K10D shots, but you are right to be so alarmed about the K20D ISO 6400 banding and bad noise in the pre-production shots above.
Sell all of your Pentax gear now while the Eeekbay prices are still ridiculously high!
Ray
Please, don't weep, please, don't cry...
We will shoot alarmists under war's laws.

It's joke.
But...To say seriously...

It's silly to discuss ISO6400 and make such loud conclusion
The real quality pictures of any camera are from ISO 100 till 400.
And useable 800 and 1600 is good bonus. To talk about good ISO3200 or 6400 is nonsense.
Especially, about jpeg samples without exif with beta firmware.
Who cares of ISO6400???

All talks of Sony/Nikon fans about good ISO800 of Sony 12 MP APS-C are just talks.
It's really a bit better than Sony 10 MP APS-C, but not better than ISO800 of 6 MP.
01-14-2008, 10:39 PM   #49
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 313
QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
The banding you see in the high ISO image above looks nothing like the green/purple streaking seen in some K10D shots, but you are right to be so alarmed about the K20D ISO 6400 banding and bad noise in the pre-production shots above.

Here are more samples that show banding and bad noise:
Some of those shots look like the Nikon D200 issue which Nikon acknowledged, and repaired free of charge.

There's a difference between that, and Pentax never ever acknowledging VPN, and saying basically, "Sir, hypothetically, even if there was this alleged so called hypothetical "VPN", it (hypothetically) would definitely be allegedly only the supposed user's definite fault, so we fully guarantee you we will do absolutely nothing about it ever."





QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
Sell all of your Pentax gear now while the Eeekbay prices are still ridiculously high!

Ray
Already done.

01-14-2008, 11:14 PM   #50
Veteran Member
lol101's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Garennes sur Eure France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 900
QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
Some of those shots look like the Nikon D200 issue which Nikon acknowledged, and repaired free of charge.

There's a difference between that, and Pentax never ever acknowledging VPN, and saying basically, "Sir, hypothetically, even if there was this alleged so called hypothetical "VPN", it (hypothetically) would definitely be allegedly only the supposed user's definite fault, so we fully guarantee you we will do absolutely nothing about it ever."







Already done.
Do you really think the camera's IQ can be judged from thoses samples?

Are you aware you are discussing ISO 6400 performances with early firmware that you know nothing about (and underexposed by two stops in addition...)?

If you're interested by the camera, why not wait for production samples at the very least?

Or maybe you just like to complain...
01-14-2008, 11:21 PM   #51
Veteran Member
lol101's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Garennes sur Eure France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 900
QuoteOriginally posted by ricardobeat Quote
maybe I got it wrong, but I think those noisy shots are 100% crops. If they are, it looks really good. That is with no NR applied, you can easily get rid of the chroma noise.

Considering the setup (birds, sandboarding, quad-cycles) I'd say the WOW factor of this new camera will be the fastest and more accurate predictive AF we've ever seen.

And come on, if the K10D does 5fps they surely won't degrade it.
I don't think they are 100% crops, some are crops (as indicated by the OP) but in any case, if there is one thing that changes dramatically from beta firmwares to "definitive" ones, it's the high ISO IQ so I wouldn't pay too much attention to these.
01-14-2008, 11:22 PM   #52
Veteran Member
lol101's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Garennes sur Eure France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 900
QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
No, because the buyer returned it all to me because of excessive VPN...
Damn! It's a curse then...

Only I am not sure if the curse is on you or us...
01-15-2008, 12:22 AM   #53
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,161
QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
Apparently, Canon and Nikon, with all of their resources, cash, and alleged superiority, do not always understand how to "completely eliminate" banding noise any better than Pentax, even if you spend upwards of $5,000 for one of their cameras.

I think getting a usable ISO 3200 out of the new camera will be quite an accomplishment only one year or so after releasing the 10MP K10D, which I consider to be barely usable at ISO 800.

Ray
You could add that the ist-D also gives a significant amount of VPN/HPN when underexposed.
All digital camera I tried will.
Some should learn how to expose properly instead of moaning constantly in forums.

Why can't that troll be banned?

01-15-2008, 12:49 AM   #54
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tirana, Albania, South Europe, Planet Earth
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 621
QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
No, because the buyer returned it all to me because of excessive VPN...
You can send all your worthless pentax stuff to me and I\d be happy to give you something worthy.
01-15-2008, 01:09 AM   #55
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 313
QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
As for the images they come from the following cameras:


Some of the images are from official review sites that shall remain nameless
Ray
What's the deal with those "D300" shots where on the left side is banding, and on the right it is gone? What were they comparing?
01-15-2008, 03:13 AM   #56
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kitakyushu
Posts: 186
Yes the shot have amazing color gradation and an amazing smoothness as though they were laquered with a beautiflly rich varnish......but that Pentaxes trademark. Its enough for me. Wow I feel like I am back in the 80s listening to Joe Jackson with the nuclear war imminent. Sadly I am not. Just waiting for some details on what will be camera soon.
01-15-2008, 03:30 AM   #57
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 841
Posting images from a pre-production unit only tells that the camera was able to take images, it does not tell about the actual quality of the images so I don't understand the posting of those images here. Remember the K10D introduction? We had leaked images taken with pre-production samples there too, and those images were terrible. So those images gave bad reputation to the K10D before it was released. Now the same thing happens again.
Never judge images from pre-production units. There is a reason to why Dpreviews previews seldom contains images, just because they are previewing pre-production units, and the pre-production units does not have as good image quality as the final production units.

We're still a few weeks to the actual product announcement, and we don't know yet when the production units will be available. It may be even more weeks.
So lets wait with judgement over image quality 'till we have the "real thing".
01-15-2008, 03:52 AM   #58
Senior Member




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 123
QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
Posting images from a pre-production unit only tells that the camera was able to take images, it does not tell about the actual quality of the images so I don't understand the posting of those images here. Remember the K10D introduction? We had leaked images taken with pre-production samples there too, and those images were terrible. So those images gave bad reputation to the K10D before it was released. Now the same thing happens again.
Never judge images from pre-production units. There is a reason to why Dpreviews previews seldom contains images, just because they are previewing pre-production units, and the pre-production units does not have as good image quality as the final production units.

We're still a few weeks to the actual product announcement, and we don't know yet when the production units will be available. It may be even more weeks.
So lets wait with judgement over image quality 'till we have the "real thing".
those images are not even full resolution images ... talk about image quality then ... people should wait 2 weeks, I am sure that pentax will upload official tiffs/raws on their k20d site
01-15-2008, 06:09 AM   #59
Inactive Account




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Perth
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 669
Does anyone shoot in low ISO's like me? I only use high ISO when I need to and I tell you what Neat image brings any high ISO image a treat.

From all the posts I see here I'm starting to think that everyone only shoots severely underexposed high ISO shots blows them up to 100% crops then spends hours upon hours studying them looking for flaws. Seriously is this what photography has become?

Anyway pics whether taken with a K20D or kodak box brownie look pretty good to me and show people enjoying themselves and having fun.

Take the hint - their having fun while some of you on here are crying into your cups because a pic has some noise in it - get a life.

Mutley if you are so worried just buy a nikond300.
I'll pre empt your answers -
Why should I? (Because you are unhappy and annoying)
I have 1000's of $$$ invested in Pentax glass. (so sell it. It is probably worth more than you paid for it.)
and the other beauty is
Pentax should build a pro level camera just for me (but at a budget price of course as I can't really afford a nikon D300)
01-15-2008, 08:05 AM   #60
Veteran Member
lol101's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Garennes sur Eure France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 900
And now to something completely different: a fish and a carpet...


Time for a musical interlude of some kind...
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
cameras, dubai, essay, images, k20d, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, photo
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question can email notifications be made to display posted images, instead of links? cezarL Site Suggestions and Help 2 03-14-2010 07:09 AM
Pentax k10d-k20d made vacation apparel charliezap Pentax DSLR Discussion 4 04-01-2009 08:04 PM
K20d, I've made my decision Rush2112 Pentax DSLR Discussion 15 01-12-2009 09:00 PM
I made a video with K20d pasipasi Photographic Technique 16 12-07-2008 09:38 AM
3 new panos made with new K20D mikerigel Post Your Photos! 3 06-05-2008 03:47 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:44 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top