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05-09-2012, 01:54 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
So, forget about the full frame mirror-less dream - bring on the mirror-less medium format!
Full frame makes more sense because there are plenty of lenses available to use with it. With MF, not so much. Plus, it would probably be very, very hard to make a design with small flange distance. Leica had to do a lot of work to make sure the sensor can record properly the images produced by their lenses.

05-09-2012, 02:00 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It's perfectly normal to see no such outrage/hate, even from people who strongly disagree with the idea. Were you really thinking that all those who don't like EVFs must be haters/fanboys/whatever? I doubt it.

From your thread, how many already had a 645D or are planning to buy one? I.e. willing to cope with a no-lens-system and using adapters, as well as the lack or a proper viewfinder (getting some consumer-level EVF instead).
With such a small market, losing few thousands customers because of breaking compatibility would be a huge issue.
Hi there Kunzite -- why don't you click on the link in my previous post (which you quoted), and see for yourself? The thread extends for about four pages, so it won't take too much time, and I found the replies to be really interesting.

Anyhow, I made it clear in my opening post that what I had in mind is a K-01 style medium format body -- keep the existing lens mount, but remove the mirror. Such an approach, I speculatively suggested, would have certain advantages that would seem to align rather well with the way that medium format shooters already use their cameras:

QuoteQuote:
I'm not a MF shooter, but it seems to me that MF shooting is typically done in a contemplative style: tripod, manual focus, etc. Aren't these exactly the circumstances in which mirrorless systems have an advantage? No mirror slap, focus peaking, a large display that is easily viewed from a distance. And the drawbacks of mirrorless -- slower AF and the slower display than an OVF -- would seem to be largely irrelevant for MF shooters.
I've been following the reaction to the K-01 with interest, which really has generated an extraordinary amount of angst from traditionalists. But I found the people in the medium format forum to be a remarkably placid, thoughtful bunch. You'll see what I mean if you check out that thread.
05-09-2012, 02:28 PM   #93
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I would prefer a MF Pentax without optical viewfinder to one [like the 645D] without live view.
05-09-2012, 02:34 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote
Anyhow, I made it clear in my opening post that what I had in mind is a K-01 style medium format body -- keep the existing lens mount, but remove the mirror. Such an approach, I speculatively suggested, would have certain advantages that would seem to align rather well with the way that medium format shooters already use their cameras:.
What makes you think people who use cameras on a tripod don't want a decent finder? It is exactly those who would want it the most. A future MF digital will most likely come with live-view anyway and by removing the finder you are simply removing 90% of the customers. A mirrorless camera like this is just a camera without an optical finder. Removing features don't make cameras more desireable.
The K-01 was developed for those who upgrade from P&S and want that shooting style. I can't imagine there are many of those ready for MF digital...

05-09-2012, 02:47 PM   #95
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asw66: I read it, and I saw quite a few posters talking about low-end (mirrorless) cameras. Sorry, it wasn't clear at all you were talking about a DMF MILC using the same mount i.e. part of the existing Pentax 645 system, and not a new mirrorless system.

IMO, you either:
- go all the way, making a new mount which would mean starting from scratch and losing customers (at 500 units/month, you just don't take such risks)
- use the same mount but "cripple" a very expensive, presumably high end camera by not offering a real viewfinder (also risking to find out the few customers don't like the limitations of current EVF technology)
And you haven't mentioned any benefits of doing so, just an opinion that MF shooters could be satisfied without the reflex viewfinder.

I'd rather go for a classic digital SLR design (preferably in a more compact body) with advanced Live View and tethering features. And I'd rather have interchangeable viewfinders (including waist-level) than the best EVF on the market (which is actually consumer-level technology).
OTOH, I'm not in a position to spend money on a 645D, so please feel free to ignore my preferences; that's why I said input from people who would actually buy is important. But I don't think I'm wrong about the two points above.
05-09-2012, 10:18 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by civiletti Quote
I would prefer a MF Pentax without optical viewfinder to one [like the 645D] without live view.

Ouch! Heresy ...
05-10-2012, 05:36 AM   #97
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Put a K-mount on it with 1080p60 mode and sell it for $3,000 then I will buy it.
05-10-2012, 06:12 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
bring on the mirror-less medium format

Also noting that mirrorless medium format has in fact worked in the past; one mass produced - of sorts, oother versions for scientific uses.

Hasselblad made (if I recall a part of this one correctly) a fixed lens medium format that did not have a mirror; it had an above body finder; extremely thin body, and interchangeable film back. Unfortuately I don't recall the model number; perhaps a variation of a 500 series, definately not a 2000FC though.

Also there are a few Hasselblad scientific models out there (mirrorless). They go as far back as the first nasa missions. There are even two of them left remaining on the moon - out of some twelve total cameras left there. It is rumored that nasa still uses at least three of this series of models; some are also in museums.

Also possibly of interest; strongly rumored and almost proven that Hasselblad working on an H5

05-10-2012, 06:56 AM   #99
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And don't forget the mamya 7 and the Bronica 645RF. Both MF without a mirror (both rangefinder). And both where very popular.
05-10-2012, 07:01 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
And don't forget the mamya 7 and the Bronica 645RF. Both MF without a mirror (both rangefinder). And both where very popular.
Mamiya is the most likely to make a digital medium format mirrorless since they could make a variant on the mamiya 7ii which is still in production. It would be damn expensive though based on other mamya kit.
05-10-2012, 07:21 AM   #101
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645D sensor, Platinum Equity, Truesense Imaging, Kodak CCD
The KAF-40000 (40.0 MP) is not listed as discontinued. According to Kodak, it also shares a common pin-out and electrical configuration with the bigger KODAK KAF-50100 (50.1 MP), allowing a single camera design to support both members of this sensor family.


A higher spec, follow-up model could also reduce the MSRP price of the current 645D. Interestingly, several used 645D are currently on the market.
05-10-2012, 07:25 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by froeschle Quote
645D sensor, Platinum Equity, Truesense Imaging, Kodak CCD
The KAF-40000 (40.0 MP) is not listed as discontinued. According to Kodak, it also shares a common pin-out and electrical configuration with the bigger KODAK KAF-50100 (50.1 MP), allowing a single camera design to support both members of this sensor family.


A higher spec, follow-up model could also reduce the MSRP price of the current 645D. Interestingly, several used 645D are currently on the market.
where do you see that Truesense still doesn't have a developed website with info that i can see. everything dates to the time frame of the sale
05-10-2012, 08:41 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by froeschle Quote
645D sensor, Platinum Equity, Truesense Imaging, Kodak CCD
The KAF-40000 (40.0 MP) is not listed as discontinued. According to Kodak, it also shares a common pin-out and electrical configuration with the bigger KODAK KAF-50100 (50.1 MP), allowing a single camera design to support both members of this sensor family.
Yes...This link at the old Kodak data. And nothing else. But the reality is this sensor is not in production anymore and for S2 too.
05-10-2012, 08:53 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Yes...This link at the old Kodak data. And nothing else. But the reality is this sensor is not in production anymore and for S2 too.
Reliable source? Maybe, the successor is already available? Perhaps, one should just ask Truesense Imaging .
Hasselblad also seems to use the KAF-40000 ( H4D-40 ).
05-10-2012, 09:31 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by froeschle Quote
Reliable source? Maybe, the successor is already available? Perhaps, one should just ask Truesense Imaging .
Hasselblad also seems to use the KAF-40000 ( H4D-40 ).
it's the reason leica has begun sourcing a new sensor for the S2

these sensors are now a few years old so the fact they would be out of production is no surprise. the real issue would be what numbers did Penmtax (hoya) commit to on the sensor production. once those are consumed (whether they are sitting on a shelf at truesense or at pentax
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