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05-22-2012, 11:41 AM   #961
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
having the 3 colours on display in Target (pretty much assured based on ned's comments) will sell a good number ....if ever there was a hipster 5 and dime it's Target
Hah Hah - the BMW:Chevy ratio approaches 1:1 at mine.

05-22-2012, 11:50 AM   #962
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Hah Hah - the BMW:Chevy ratio approaches 1:1 at mine.
We don't have them yet, the first are slated to open in 2013 (189 stores to open by the end of 2013 - maybe i should look at the buying division to get pentax into target Canada and keep Canon out )
05-22-2012, 11:57 AM   #963
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
We don't have them yet, the first are slated to open in 2013 (189 stores to open by the end of 2013 - maybe i should look at the buying division to get pentax into target Canada and keep Canon out )
They're really quite clean and bright and the shopping experience is pleasant. Aisles are wide, merch is shelved neatly and constantly policed. They tend to have enough checkout lanes open so that the wait is not more than three shoppers.

Can't speak about the electronics counters (merch is behind glass display case, not really on a shelf) buying experience since I rarely buy there.

Target is definitely in a different buyer demographic from Walmart and BestBuy.
05-22-2012, 12:00 PM   #964
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
They're really quite clean and bright and the shopping experience is pleasant. Aisles are wide, merch is shelved neatly and constantly policed. They tend to have enough checkout lanes open so that the wait is not more than three shoppers.

Can't speak about the electronics counters (merch is behind glass display case, not really on a shelf) buying experience since I rarely buy there.

Target is definitely in a different buyer demographic from Walmart and BestBuy.
It'll be interesting they bought the leaseholds on these stores from a Canadian chain. mostly right now they are poorly merchandised IMO and even walmart does better. I've never bothered to go into a target in the US, though I know a fair bit about them from my years in Retail (never shopped nordstroms either but I know them very well also)

05-22-2012, 12:13 PM   #965
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QuoteOriginally posted by D0n Quote
sorry.. I couldn't take it seriously... at all....

in fact I was about to tell him a kitten was gonna do itself in, if he brought the subject up one more time! lol!
Thanks a lot man! You made me spit soda out of my nose. Now, not only do my nostrils hurt but my wife is seriously pissed and my couch is all damp. Next time remember...responsible posting. That way no one gets hurt... again
05-22-2012, 01:07 PM   #966
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Prime M is relative low end when we start to compare with other current processors.
The Prime II which is now 2 years old is able to keep up with it it seems, and 2 years is a long time when it comes to computers.
So why you think the Prime M is awesome is a bit beyond me.

The 6th gen Fujitsu Milbeaut is the one to get, or 7th gen maybe, now that would be awesome.

6th gen.
8 frames per second (at a 14 megapixel resolution) - that's processing speed, so with 16mp sensor it will pump 7 photos every second to the SD card meaning that with the K-30 for example it will never fill the buffer.
With the Prime-M the buffer is full after 8 photos at 6fps so that is... 1 maybe 2 photos per second that it process?

the 7th gen
is even faster
HDR video
1080p with 60 frames.
JPEG-XR



About dual prime-m, that is very hard to code, it's easier to simply put in a faster processor.
The 6th gen Fujitsu Milbeaut is actually a dual core by design so you can save yourself the troubles.
I thought Prime-M was the 7th generation....
05-22-2012, 01:07 PM   #967
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Prime M is relative low end when we start to compare with other current processors.
The Prime II which is now 2 years old is able to keep up with it it seems, and 2 years is a long time when it comes to computers.
So why you think the Prime M is awesome is a bit beyond me.

The 6th gen Fujitsu Milbeaut is the one to get, or 7th gen maybe, now that would be awesome.
I think it's likely that the Prime-M actually is the Milbeaut sixth generation chip. As far as I know, no camera company makes their own imaging processor, and I think Fujitsu has this market pretty well locked up.

The extra processing capability is what gets us real-time H.264 video compression and focus peaking (but not at the same time!) in the new generation of cameras.

To the extent the Milbeaut specifications look "higher" than what the K30 or K-01 offers, it's because of other limitations, not the processor.
05-22-2012, 02:58 PM   #968
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
To the extent the Milbeaut specifications look "higher" than what the K30 or K-01 offers, it's because of other limitations, not the processor.
Curious what you can think off that limits it

The performance isn't even 20% from what they advertise and there is nothing i can think off that limits it.
The sensor and the buffer is fast enough, it can do 6 FPS without any problem and they use UHS sd slot.
What more is there that handles image processing besides the processor?

From the pentax site i read this, so it's probably not the Fujitsu Milbeaut but a processor more aimed at lower end cameras and P&S because the JPEG processing is really good but the RAW side is very much lacking.
QuoteQuote:
PRIME M image processing engine is optimized for HD video capture, smooth live view, low chromatic noise, and low energy consumption.



Last edited by Anvh; 05-22-2012 at 03:08 PM.
05-22-2012, 03:16 PM   #969
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Curious what you can think off that limits it

The performance isn't even 20% from what they advertise and there is nothing i can think off that limits it.
The sensor and the buffer is fast enough, it can do 6 FPS without any problem and they use UHS sd slot.
What more is there that handles image processing besides the processor?

From the pentax site i read this, so it's probably not the Fujitsu Milbeaut but a processor more aimed at lower end cameras and P&S because the JPEG processing is really good but the RAW side is very much lacking.
To name a few possible limiting factors:
  • The speed and size of the SDRAM used for buffer space, interface speeds, bus width, etc.;
  • Mechanics of the camera, including mirror and shutter rates;
  • How well the firmware is implemented;
  • What additional processing is performed before/during/after capture (CD focus, face detection, lens distortion correction, noise reduction, image manipulation, etc.), and how that processing is performed;
  • Whether any of the chip interfaces are multiplexed to serve multiple purposes;
  • How well optimized the interface between the sensor chip and the processor is;
  • Whether the processor or any other chip is underclocked to reduce power consumption.
Those are just off the top of my head.

I really don't agree that the K30 offers 20% of what the Milbeaut 6 does -- to me, they look pretty well matched.
05-22-2012, 04:14 PM   #970
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About this Fujitsu-thing - yes, Pentax do co-operates with Fujitsu when it comes to imaging processors. We've had discussions on that before. The original PRIME-engine was designed by Fujitsu with input from Pentax. They don't take the processors that Fujitsu has on the shelves without any tweaking. Lets just say it is unknown exactly what Fujitsu processor the PRIME M is based upon, but it is unlikely to be the same as previous versions... I do agree with that it is not only the processor but many other parameters in the camera too that affects the final performance. And power consumption I believe, perhaps limiting the things the processor handles saves battery time. And the K-30 comes with a small battery. This too can put restrictions to performance.
05-22-2012, 04:57 PM   #971
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaximus Quote
I just chatted with "Yossi" at B&H and he confirms that the B&H kits are all WR. His words:

"yes, the 18-55mm kit lenses are all the WR version, I am sorry the stock photos we have do not state WR on the lens, once we receive an updated image from Pentax we will change it"

This is a really nice offer from B&H!
There's been a correction. Apparently the confirmation from B&H was premature.

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
They are not WR. I just called B&H advising them of the mistake in the listing.

The only WR lens bundled with the K-30 right now (in the US) is the 18-135mm:
Pentax K30 Digital Camera with 18-135mm Lens Kit (Black) 15635

Last edited by illdefined; 05-22-2012 at 05:25 PM.
05-22-2012, 05:46 PM   #972
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
To name a few possible limiting factors:
[LIST]
1 The speed and size of the SDRAM used for buffer space, interface speeds, bus width, etc.;

2 Mechanics of the camera, including mirror and shutter rates;

3 How well the firmware is implemented;

4 What additional processing is performed before/during/after capture (CD focus, face detection, lens distortion correction, noise reduction, image manipulation, etc.), and how that processing is performed;

5 Whether any of the chip interfaces are multiplexed to serve multiple purposes;

6 How well optimized the interface between the sensor chip and the processor is;

7Whether the processor or any other chip is underclocked to reduce power consumption.
Those are just off the top of my head.

I really don't agree that the K30 offers 20% of what the Milbeaut 6 does -- to me, they look pretty well matched.
1, un likely, the SDRAM are super fast probably around 6400 MB/s transfer rate.
The bus and interface are part of the image processor, so that what futsji stated is the whole chip.

2. well that's 6fps, not the limit for the image processing. the buffer simply gets fully and so the camera slows down because it needs room before the next photo can be taken.

3. could be but they must really screwed it up for RAW then...

4. not with RAW. And that's the strange thing, jpeg preformance is fine but raw... it looks like an addition to the processor. An after thought.

5. chip is made up of 5 different sectors with each his own tasks, so it can multi task very well. The milbeaut that is.

6. that's firmware, already named.

7. maybe but seriously doubt that.

well match?
the 6th gen milbeaut can calculate 112 MP per second, the K-30 can mechanically take 96 MP per second so the buffer shouldn't get full.
At the moment at 6fps the camera buffer is full after 8 photos and with 3fps the buffer is full after 10 photos so we can roughly calculate the amount of photos he can process.
If i'm right it can do 1.2 photo each second so that means it does 19,2 MP per second... that's nowhere near the 122 MP the 6th gen milbeaut should be able to do, it's 17% to be precise. Good if the processor did half of the claimed speed then okay but 1/6th is quite ridiculous.

Beside that, it has buffer for 8 photos for RAW and with 30 photos for JPEG so the processor that is used is highly optimized for JPEG preformance, leading me to believe it's a processor meant for those markets JPEG is the main file type. The K3 will be aimed at RAW shooters so they hopefully wont use this processor.

Last edited by Anvh; 05-22-2012 at 05:54 PM.
05-22-2012, 05:50 PM   #973
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
About this Fujitsu-thing - yes, Pentax do co-operates with Fujitsu when it comes to imaging processors.
They did indeed so when under Hoya but they are under Ricoh now.
It started with the Q, that one has a processor thats unnamed, well i can live with that.
Now they are using Prime-m with the K-01 and the K-30 and what is with the M,why not Prime III ?
that's a sign for me that it isnt a continuation.


And for the rest.
If it was based on the 6th gen milbeaut then it's hard to explain 83% drop in performance however way you look at it.
Also you would believe that the Prime-M would be faster then the Prime-II when the Prime-M is based on 2 year newer processor but that isnt the case, looks like they are evenly match when it comes to RAW.

Last edited by Anvh; 05-22-2012 at 05:59 PM.
05-22-2012, 05:51 PM   #974
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That wet blue pic is total camera porn, sigh....
05-22-2012, 05:53 PM   #975
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This must be changing by the minute, B&H is offering this kit for $1,049.95:

Pentax
K30 Digital Camera with 18-55mm and 50-200mm Lens Kit

18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AL WR Zoom Lens
50-200mm f/4-5.6 ED WR Zoom Lens
16.3Mp APS-C CMOS Image Sensor
Full 1080p30 HD Video h.264 Compression
PRIME M Processing Optimized for Video
Large Wide Angle Viewable 3.0" LCD
77 Segment Metering System
Continuous 6 FPS Shooting
ISO Expandable to 25600
Uses Rechargeable Li-Ion or AA batteries

B&H # PEK302LKB
Mfr # 15646

New Item, Available for pre-order

The kit with the 18-135 is selling for $1,199.95, those are pretty good buys if you want those lenses.
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