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05-24-2012, 02:04 AM   #316
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Just a question... I know DA lenses are designed for Digital Sensors but was it specifically announced that it covers ONLY APS-C sized sensors? Or just digital sensors? Current era full-frame sensors ARE digital sensors right? Previous FF 'sensors' were called films, right?

Coz if it's not the latter, that means Pentax do have plans or are already in the process for a FF already...

05-24-2012, 02:21 AM   #317
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they designed all new lens as DA just to be credible when they say "we have no FF plan".
05-24-2012, 03:15 AM   #318
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The D FA lenses covers 24x36, the DA lenses is only APS-C. This is official information. But unofficially there are *some* (but far from all) DA lenses that also covers 24x36 bodies, like the DA Star 200 f/2.8. (more the mid to tele primes that works than the zooms) If Pentax introduces a 24x36 body then a few lenses will work, and they can easily re-name the DA that works to D FA..
05-24-2012, 03:32 AM   #319
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
The D FA lenses covers 24x36, the DA lenses is only APS-C. This is official information. But unofficially there are *some* (but far from all) DA lenses that also covers 24x36 bodies, like the DA Star 200 f/2.8. (more the mid to tele primes that works than the zooms) If Pentax introduces a 24x36 body then a few lenses will work, and they can easily re-name the DA that works to D FA..
Oh.. officially announced.

05-24-2012, 03:48 AM   #320
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
The D FA lenses covers 24x36, the DA lenses is only APS-C. This is official information. But unofficially there are *some* (but far from all) DA lenses that also covers 24x36 bodies, like the DA Star 200 f/2.8. (more the mid to tele primes that works than the zooms) If Pentax introduces a 24x36 body then a few lenses will work, and they can easily re-name the DA that works to D FA..
For what i know :

Most of the DA "prime" lenses covers FF (24x36), except (ultra-) wide angle like DA 14 and maybe DA 21.
Most or maybe all of the DA zooms doesn't cover FF, exception maybe with the DA* 60-250.
05-24-2012, 04:42 AM   #321
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QuoteOriginally posted by MouLaG ‘fr Quote
For what i know :

Most of the DA "prime" lenses covers FF (24x36), except (ultra-) wide angle like DA 14 and maybe DA 21.
Most or maybe all of the DA zooms doesn't cover FF, exception maybe with the DA* 60-250.
It's not whether the DA or DA* lenses cover the FF 24x36, but also whether they can do so with SR on, and if there is vignetting or light falloff that is unacceptable or passable. For the price of these lenses and the price of an FF body, and compared to the competition, excessive falloff or other optical disabilities will hamper FF sales and the brand.

So they may be nominally FF (FA) I suspect they all would need some reworking to properly wear the FA moniker.
05-24-2012, 04:56 AM   #322
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I think more importantly... if there is another line of bodies, and there are already lenses left over from the film era, then you can have three levels of lenses... the x series for k-01 only... (deeper rear inset) the aps-c series and the PRO series, regardless of wether people use the dal on ff or not, they won't expect the same image quality they would from a LTD series on thier FF bodies.. so all good in the end.
05-24-2012, 05:18 AM   #323
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QuoteOriginally posted by MouLaG ‘fr Quote
For what i know :

Most of the DA "prime" lenses covers FF (24x36), except (ultra-) wide angle like DA 14 and maybe DA 21.
Most or maybe all of the DA zooms doesn't cover FF, exception maybe with the DA* 60-250.
QuoteOriginally posted by D0n Quote
I think more importantly... if there is another line of bodies, and there are already lenses left over from the film era, then you can have three levels of lenses... the x series for k-01 only... (deeper rear inset) the aps-c series and the PRO series, regardless of wether people use the dal on ff or not, they won't expect the same image quality they would from a LTD series on thier FF bodies.. so all good in the end.
Well, for FF you need 2 lines of lenses and some speciality products.

You need f/2.8 pro (WR) and f/3.5-4.0 (non-WR) prosumer grade lenses. Pentax did this in the past, all the competition do, and it's the only way to drive sales. This is with zooms.

Without the consumer grade lenses you lose at least 50% of your base. They cannot afford pro grade lenses, so that would affect camera body sales and the shift to FF. These are consumer who cover the range with affordable zooms and for quality/speed get 2-3 primes. This has been the heart and soul of SLR/DSLR sales for 40 years.

The primes stand alone. For the most part the optical designs here are baked; it then becomes a matter of quality, speed, and WR with price trade-offs. Pentax can afford to take their time here because these are less likely to affect camera body sales and format switching. With zooms they need a solid line-up pretty quickly, at least 6 lenses plus a travel zoom (28-250 variable). Reworking the 24-90 would be a stopgap consumer lens option for maybe 1 year tops.

Then there is the need for macros (1 done already), fisheye (relatively easy), teleconverter (necessary for FF), and ideally a perspective control lens (tilt/shift). This is what a pro line-up needs.

Pentax may not need to go toe-to-toe with the Canon and Nikon super-tele zooms, but for everything below that they need to roll out a comprehensive, two-tier zoom line-up.

05-24-2012, 05:43 AM   #324
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While I agree they need all of that, to launch a FF and get in the game they don't need everything, the most important are 24-70 2.8, 70-200 2.8, TC, there are already a number of acceptible primes (FA LTD, FA50, DFA100 and probably the 200 and 300) A number of the holes are also temporarily able to be covered off through 3rd party (Sigma)
So really 2 zooms are the initial launch issue. Lower price f4 zooms need to follow pretty quickly (or it could launch the other way round since 2.8 is available in sigma) All future FA lenses though need to be WR. it will be a long time before a FF body that isn't WR exists (if ever) so there is no reason all the lenses should not be made to the standard. FF isn't a camera driven by kit sales though a value kit is a necessity (24-105 4.0 w/ body)
05-24-2012, 07:10 AM   #325
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QuoteOriginally posted by SyncGuy Quote
Oh.. officially announced.
Depends on what you call 'official'. In their patents for the 60-250 and 300, they described them as full frame, yet brought them to the marketplace as DA*.
05-24-2012, 07:11 AM   #326
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Then there is the need for macros (1 done already)
I believe both the 50mm and the 100mm are described as full frame.
05-24-2012, 07:25 AM   #327
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
While I agree they need all of that, to launch a FF and get in the game they don't need everything, the most important are 24-70 2.8, 70-200 2.8, TC, there are already a number of acceptible primes (FA LTD, FA50, DFA100 and probably the 200 and 300) A number of the holes are also temporarily able to be covered off through 3rd party (Sigma)
So really 2 zooms are the initial launch issue. Lower price f4 zooms need to follow pretty quickly (or it could launch the other way round since 2.8 is available in sigma) All future FA lenses though need to be WR. it will be a long time before a FF body that isn't WR exists (if ever) so there is no reason all the lenses should not be made to the standard. FF isn't a camera driven by kit sales though a value kit is a necessity (24-105 4.0 w/ body)
They'll need a wide at launch, ideally a 14-24 flagship, or a 16-35. Copy Nikon. Pick one. Do it right.. A super-wide can wait. But bracketing the 24mm focal length with a top-quality zoom is a must.

Also required is a 50 macro for FF. Needs to be very soon after launch. For many (like me) this is the go-to "normal" lens. In an age of pixel peeping for sharpness, these are the lenses that make talk.

Need a 28-70/4 in a compact package right away; maybe a 24-90 remake, maybe the 28-105. Not expensive lenses to make, but they cost marketing and shelf space. Consumers won't buy the body if they don't have lens options, not at FF camera body prices. Both Nikon and Canon FF sales took off when the lens development caught up.

The critical FL is 24mm both for pro and consumer, in primes and zooms. Pentax will need the equivalent of the DA 15. With the D FA 100 and the FA Ltd 77 an 85mm is not needed right away, but between 24mm and 50mm is where the weakness lies, especially at consumer grade.

They'll need an f/4ish long reach zoom also, like 100-300.

Cannot rely on Limiteds to drive sales. Too pricey. Need more budget friendly 35mm prime, maybe a 28mm, and the FA 50/1.4 needs a redesign (like the new DA 50/1.8). Keep it budget friendly or it will not drive sales. It's a good thing if consumers agonize over a 28, 35, or 50mm, along with the 43 and 31 Ltd. If consumers cannot reach up, they can still stay loyal. This is what vexes the Pentax line-up right now.

Relying on third parties is wrong. That's leaving money on the table, and dilutes the brand.

They also need a reworked flash system.
05-24-2012, 07:34 AM   #328
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Also required is a 50 macro for FF. Needs to be very soon after launch. For many (like me) this is the go-to "normal" lens. In an age of pixel peeping for sharpness, these are the lenses that make talk.
PENTAX - smc PENTAX D FA 50mm F2.8 Macro




https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/183420-current...me-lenses.html
05-24-2012, 07:47 AM   #329
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If Pentax produce an FF camera, I hope they produce one which folks can use as well as and not instead of the Canonikon offerings. If Pentax try simply to copy Canonikon, then it's very hard to see anyone buying it other than a few existing Pentax users. Something more like a rangefinder or a smaller 645D, perhaps, maybe with interchangeable backs or viewfinders. As various posts have suggested, copying Canonikon's DSLRs means a huge amount of work and expense given the number of new lenses and other stuff which would need to be ready from the get-go. A new mount for this camera might also get round the problem of the Pentax old guard not wanting to spend any money because they have so many film-era lenses already. Whatever FF appears, if any, I just don't see how Pentax could afford to make it cut-price. They would need income from lenses as well as or perhaps more so than from bodies.
05-24-2012, 08:04 AM   #330
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
. . .
Also required is a 50 macro for FF. Needs to be very soon after launch. For many (like me) this is the go-to "normal" lens. In an age of pixel peeping for sharpness, these are the lenses that make talk.
. . .
You can buy yourself a D FA 50/2.8 macro right now!

QuoteQuote:
The PENTAX smc P-D FA 50mm F2.8 macro is designed specifically for digital cameras. It utilizes curvature and positioning of optical elements to virtually eliminate flare and ghosting for clear, high-quality images particularly important to digital photography. This versatile lens can also be used as a telephoto lens and features our acclaimed multi-layer coating to lower surface reflection, reduce ultraviolet rays, and deliver clear, high-contrast images.
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